The postal workers dispute and the role of the left

[IWW Fellow Worker]

Any members of any socialist parties care to answer Ramsay McDonald?

[Tman]

Obviously not, so why don't you try?
Or maybe it's as always with the Far Left; long on dogma and rhetoric but always short on facts and deeds?

[norbet colon]

I believe Prescott said "he's done me as a dog , I'm not a f*****g dog , I'll f*** him !"

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Yeah, you said.
Now, remind me again of the benefits so-called the Hard Left have ever achieved for the average Joe?
Note, providing a free supply of toilet paper nominally called the "Socialist Worker" doesn't count here.

Now I may not fully understand a democracy but I am pretty sure that for any "type" of political persuasion to "benefit" the average joe, don't they have to be in power first. With Labour no longer a Socialist type party IMHO they have not helped the "Average Joe" that much, except in one small way which has been trumpeted to the roof tops but has not help us much at all and that's the minimum wage.

One benefit of the hard left/far left is that they do highlight the failings in the pseudo socialist policies of New Labour but of course that's only my opinion.

[Tman]

Now I may not fully understand a democracy but I am pretty sure that for any "type" of political persuasion to "benefit" the average joe, don't they have to be in power first.

Exactamondo, and when have the Far Left ever formed a government in the UK? That's right.....never. Doesn't that indicate that the Great British public can see through the hype and want no part of it? Never have and most likely never will; it's a sham.

With Labour no longer a Socialist type party IMHO they have not helped the "Average Joe" that much, except in one small way which has been trumpeted to the roof tops but has not help us much at all and that's the minimum wage.

One benefit of the hard left/far left is that they do highlight the failings in the pseudo socialist policies of New Labour but of course that's only my opinion

Nice idea, but no-one listens to the comrades any more. They're figures of fun and have been for decades, even for the very working classes who should be the natural supporters of them.
They were jeered and laughed at in the last strike I was involved in before I joined RM, and that was more years ago than I care to remember.
"Lefty agitators" as they were termed "see who brings you a cup of tea at 4am on the picket line, it might be the local Labour club members, or the nearby Trades Union club, but it will never be the idiots who sell the Socialist Worker on a nice sunny afternoon" and sure enough, that was the case too.
As I've said on another post, they're high on rhetoric but low on action and always disappoint.

[norbet colon]

source http://en.wikapedia.org/wiki/Private_Eye under newspaper parodies

DAVE SPART
"Dave Spart -ultra -left wing activist ---always chairperson of a number of ridiculous sounding collectives or magazines -----sometimes the New Spartsman or The Indescribly Sparty -frequently based in Neasden who is given free rein to express his views .

These always begin with "Once again " ------before attempting to lambast his subject of anger for allegedly constant misconduct or general wrongdoing .

This rarely gets further than a few words before it breaks down into fragmented litany , of sickening , totally sickening , worse than Hitler and so on , before being curtailed by the inevitable "continued on P94 ".

Since he must take the alternative view on any subject , he ends up contradicting himself & getting stuck in logical circles ,frequently stopping with Er , but continuing anyway "

They tend to attract the "paronoid " type , everything & everyone is in the wrong and there always has to be someone to hate , have a punch up with and go on marches . They tend to be splitters with the inevitable infighting , just like the far right.

I did go years ago to one of their meetings with "Melitant " in Manchester , they wheeled out all the big guns , Mark Steel who wasn't bad , Harry ? , the Probation Officer's union head honcho, Lindsay Germain etc , their leader who looked like something off CBBC .

It was "entertaining " like something out of Viz ,

I've respect for some of the comrades that are geniunely communally minded & back the union up /constructive involvement within it and the oppositional role against New Labour / RM in their propaganda , but I've no intention of joining and they seem to have some strange "friends " like the Hezzabolah and Islamic Right .

[BELIAL]

As I've said on another post, they're high on rhetoric but low on action and always disappoint.

Well at last he's got something right ,an excellent summation of NEW LABOUR

[IWW Fellow Worker]

Obviously not, so why don't you try?
Or maybe it's as always with the Far Left; long on dogma and rhetoric but always short on facts and deeds?

I'm not a member of any political party and I'm certainly not on the "Far Left" so couldn't possibly give any representative view on their behalf. However, I do know that anyone who still imagines the Labour Party has anything to offer is under some sort of delusion. There is no reason why any working person should vote Labour. Labourites are fond of appealing to some glorious past and are wont to go all dewy eyed about the Atlee Government and the setting up of the Welfare State, which was really the idea of the Liberal Party of a previous generation, enlarged upon by Beveridge (another Liberal) and agreed by all the major political parties. The 1944 Education Act was similar. Most of the credit belongs to RA Butler (a Tory) with help from Ellen Wilkinson (Labour) and agreed by all parties. Labour gets the credit because they were in government at the time, but the post-war consensus was such that whichever party won power, these Acts would have gone through parliament virtually unopposed. As I said, there is no reason why any working person should vote Labour as they have nothing to gain from doing so, particularly under the present set up. The best reason any Labourite can give us is that they aren't the Conservatives. The last couple of elections have shown that invoking the bogey man of Toryism will only take Labour so far before people decide to stay at home on election days, which they are doing more and more frequently.

[norbet colon]

Obviously not, so why don't you try?
Or maybe it's as always with the Far Left; long on dogma and rhetoric but always short on facts and deeds?

I'm not a member of any political party and I'm certainly not on the "Far Left" so couldn't possibly give any representative view on their behalf. However, I do know that anyone who still imagines the Labour Party has anything to offer is under some sort of delusion. There is no reason why any working person should vote Labour. Laborites are fond of appealing to some glorious past and are wont to go all dewy eyed about the Atlee Government and the setting up of the Welfare State, which was really the idea of the Liberal Party of a previous generation, enlarged upon by Beveridge (another Liberal) and agreed by all the major political parties. The 1944 Education Act was similar. Most of the credit belongs to RA Butler (a Tory) with help from Ellen Wilkinson (Labour) and agreed by all parties. Labour gets the credit because they were in government at the time, but the post-war consensus was such that whichever party won power, these Acts would have gone through parliament virtually unopposed. As I said, there is no reason why any working person should vote Labour as they have nothing to gain from doing so, particularly under the present set up. The best reason any Labourite can give us is that they aren't the Conservatives. The last couple of elections have shown that invoking the bogey man of Toryism will only take Labour so far before people decide to stay at home on election days, which they are doing more and more frequently.

IWW is absolutely correct , I wouldn't fall for this "glorious " past illusion . Labour may have won the election , but Churchill had in reality a coalition government during the war , he'd people with him from the various parties because they were useful in running the country , in what was an emergency situation .

The Railways could have been nationalized a lot earlier as they were of strategic importance . Marples had it in for them in the early 50's when the Tories got back in, as he was a road haulage boss. There was opposition from the BMA as the doctors wanted their half a crown ?? fees with the NHS .

Different brand of politicians in those days , no need for all this spin & hype with no substance & centralized control freakery . A busy -body government if there ever was .
- we've had a PM & his US gaffer that are guided by God ,( Sounds more like a diminished responsibility plea ?) to be replaced by someone who is guided by the Kremlin .

Thou shalt not take his Toniness in vain ?

[BELIAL]

Obviously not, so why don't you try?
Or maybe it's as always with the Far Left; long on dogma and rhetoric but always short on facts and deeds?

Support social justice, fight for social inclusion, sound familiar? Get back to work you lazy overpaid peasants, ring any bells?Draw the connection it's not too difficult

[Tman]

["

BELIAL"]

Obviously not, so why don't you try?
Or maybe it's as always with the Far Left; long on dogma and rhetoric but always short on facts and deeds?

Support social justice, fight for social inclusion, sound familiar?

Err, no.

Get back to work you lazy overpaid peasants, ring any bells?

No.

Draw the connection it's not too difficult

No "connections to be drawn" there. Was there any "connection" here to the original point, ie, the achievements of the far Left, or is it another cryptic (meaningless) message?

[Tman]

[

I'm not a member of any political party and I'm certainly not on the "Far Left" so couldn't possibly give any representative view on their behalf. However, I do know that anyone who still imagines the Labour Party has anything to offer is under some sort of delusion.

Yes, as before, so you keep saying.....

There is no reason why any working person should vote Labour. Labourites are fond of appealing to some glorious past and are wont to go all dewy eyed about the Atlee Government and the setting up of the Welfare State, which was really the idea of the Liberal Party of a previous generation, enlarged upon by Beveridge (another Liberal) and agreed by all the major political parties. The 1944 Education Act was simi yada yada....

You should be a politician of some hue though, as you're obviously a master of evading the question and fudging the answer.
Is there anything new you can add, or is it rehash the rehashed from now on?

[BELIAL]

["

BELIAL"]

Obviously not, so why don't you try?
Or maybe it's as always with the Far Left; long on dogma and rhetoric but always short on facts and deeds?

Support social justice, fight for social inclusion, sound familiar?

Err, no.

Get back to work you lazy overpaid peasants, ring any bells?

No.

Draw the connection it's not too difficult

No "connections to be drawn" there. Was there any "connection" here to the original point, ie, the achievements of the far Left, or is it another cryptic (meaningless) message?

You being deliberately obtuse or is it some sort of innate gift

[Tman]

You being deliberately obtuse or is it some sort of innate gift

Neither, just querying your usual totally unconnected musings.
Must be the "surgical bully" in me.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

Support social justice, fight for social inclusion, sound familiar?

Fair points mate. The left have been in the forefront of those movements going back at least to the unemployed campaigns of the 20s and 30s, the anti-fascist campaigns of the 30s to the present day, anti-nuclear gropus, environmental groups, the anti-poll tax campaign, the anti-war movement and more. They're not perfect, but at least they've had a go when not one major political party was willing to become involved.