What Future Is There In Postal Worker Forums?

[jemima]

There are rules here about name calling - that isn't approved of - but you can say what you think of someone's opinions if you don't agree with them. A bit of constructive debate helps to clarify current issues. If you can justify your opinions rationally then you can say what you think, whether you approve of RM 's current policies or not

That's why this site works....

[DirtyHarry]

I may be wrong but this site isn't just for Postal Workers. It's for management, customers and members of the public too. In fact I can go further, this site isn't just about delivery Postal Workers either. I feel what this site lacks is an unbiased, impartial view on the industry. After all, we all believed we were going to get a 'NO' vote with regards to pay deal, how misled we all were. Unfortunately, this site is becoming dominated by posters who forget this site is not just about them and thier views. I appreciate the information that is shared on this forum, however I am increasingly becoming weary of the fact that even more posters are becoming afraid to express thier views and opinions, for fear of abuse. Surely it is in the interest of us all to hear all the sides of any arguement. Even if it is just to prepare us for a 'Real World' confrontation on the subject.

Oh dear, having read the above, ghastly memories of that nightmarish postmanshat forum came flooding back to me. As I'm sure you're only too well aware, under the guise of "this forum isn't just for lowly posties, fed up, demoralised, and becoming more increasingly angry with the current lunatic management regime, it's for management, customers, blah, blah, blah", debates were stifled, posts were pulled, posters were banned, it became, or was becoming, a sham. There wasn't any unbiased, impartial views on the industry, just a continuous rant about how we, the workers, hadn't a cat in hell's chance of preventing further deterioration of our jobs, conditions of work, service we provide to the public. You seem not to understand that here, as was the case on postmanshat, though both sites are/were open to all and sundry, the MAJORITY of people signing up to both sites were, like myself, humble posties, and therefore more likely as not, not best pleased with our lot.
Something is not very right with RM, because if you were to visit every site with RM workers on them, you'd find the MAJORITY of these postal workers were unhappy with the way their jobs are going, especially in this day and age when there aren't exactly jobs growing on trees for them to jump this sinking ship which RM has become. The term, "Real World", is horribly reminiscent of the type of remark the owner of postmanshat would use just before either expunging a thread, or a post, or even the poster him/herself.
It would be a very great shame, if because postmanshat ex-pats whined loud enough, and long enough, this site were to develop over a period of time into a carbon copy of postmanshat, however, knowing that POSTMAN is what his name implies, a POSTIE, just like the MAJORITY of the rest of us, and therefore subject on a daily basis to the lunacy of incompetent management RM style, I know that it's highly unlikely that would happen.
As I think I tried to advise you of earlier, you will not get many people who frequent this superb site, fawning over RM management nor, I might add, will you get many people "understanding" why they have to be continually trodden down, just so this company increases it's profits, pays more out in outrageous bonuses to management, whilst all the while going through the ludicrous motions of informing the workforce that because the company deems them to be "overpaid" and "underworked" they don't deserve the decency of a pay rise.

Right, rant over, and I promised myself I wouldn't rant. Promises, promises.

[Spedley]

Out of interest, what is the bandwidth used by this site?

[Night Tonic]

You have a point DirtyHarry although I can't see employees posting on any forum, no matter what industry, just to say how good the job is either. I think we have to accept that those that exist are going to be negative (depending on how you look at it) about their employer. This is why its not realistic to say that a forum is representative of all postal workers - its not going to be by default. Same goes for polls - it'll be one way by default (give or take a few).

The article actually makes some valid points. I run my own forum (airplane related) and apart from getting sponsorship from the aviation industry it'll never actually pay and I'll never get sufficient members to cough up. If I made it payment only, membership would drop like a stone. With as subject matter thats work related, and I note Postman's comment about not wanting CWU sponsorship but the CWU wouldn't consider it anyway. That doesn't leave much in the way of options apart from donations, prizes whatever and the bigger a forum gets, the more the costs go up. If RMC makes some major impact on change, and it hasn't so far, then it might be different but forums have always been seen as a free thing. Bandwidth isn't free though. On top of that are all the recent cases where people have sued individuals and managed to enforce the disclosure of members etc. Most on here try to be anonymous for good reason and its human nature that if the poo really did hit the fan, everyone would no doubt vanish leaving Postman to take the can. Thats human nature too. I agree - forums are a minefield.

[norbet colon]

That site certainly did change direction , all of a sudden , SA , SJV came down hard on anything remotely critical of RM's board , everything was driven by Hellmail right wing union bashing articles . Hellmail bragged about zapping troublemakers as there was "too much dirty linen aired in public " before they closed .

The Hellmail article stated the site had served it's purpose with the dispute over .

I don't believe all this rubbish about the " selfless" site owner having to turn down promotion. I'm sure certain people will be looked after for telling RM what they want to hear .

I've never known "a relaxing lounge bar " according to Hellmail ,in which you'll soon feel a heavy hand on your collar from the bouncers for being off message

There was quite a few postings about PMC trying to hack past people's firewalls , I know there was telephone threats which was out of order; but people found these intrusions to be beyond the realms of coincidence .

I think Dirty Harry made a comment about the figures not adding up ( RM school of accounting ?) and people had to stay hidden to thank people for off RM message postings .

I thought some of the regulars in the Union room must have been on thin ice considering.

[postal_jedi]

Look I am not from Postman chat, I've never even been on it. It's always the same, posters don't like what they hear so they shoot the poster. I would say that, yes the Postal Workers on this site are fed up. I would also say that we don't hear from the ones who aren't because as soon as they post they are bullied off the forum. I'm all for debate and opinions, I love them and I don't think anyone should be banned from a site. As long as they aren't offensive, racist or sexist. All I am pointing out is that a handfull of posters dominate this site. As I said, I'm not pro RM or RM management, I just like to hear what other people have to say too. If only to strengthen the arguement against them. I understand some staff like to come on here to rant or let off steam. I would say rant and let off steam at work, where it is productive. Doing it on a forum will gain nothing. The other point I would make is that, yes, I would say a lot of posters are unhappy, but the majority of union members accepted this pay deal. This was something I really, and honestly, didn't expect to happen from reading the posts on this site. Could it be we are becoming out of touch? I really hope not.

[axeman]

n.t . 'disclosure' seems to have you rattled somewhat you seem to want to frighten everyone ? quite posible some of the people i know might well use your forum if 'aviation' related or might be intrested but alas some have rotor blades do you cover those ? and one has a lear cover that ?. post it and i'll tell you if they do ....

[smokerjim]

Look I am not from Postman chat, I've never even been on it. It's always the same, posters don't like what they hear so they shoot the poster. I would say that, yes the Postal Workers on this site are fed up. I would also say that we don't hear from the ones who aren't because as soon as they post they are bullied off the forum. {b]I'm all for debate and opinions, I love them and I don't think anyone should be banned from a site.[/b] As long as they aren't offensive, racist or sexist. [/b]All I am pointing out is that a handfull of posters dominate this site.[/b] As I said, I'm not pro RM or RM management, I just like to hear what other people have to say too. If only to strengthen the arguement against them. I understand some staff like to come on here to rant or let off steam. I would say rant and let off steam at work, where it is productive. Doing it on a forum will gain nothing. The other point I would make is that, yes, I would say a lot of posters are unhappy, but the majority or union members accepted this pay deal. This was something I really, and honestly, didn't expect to happen from reading this posts on this site. Could it be we are becoming out of touch? I really hope not.

Are you saying that the people above are dominating this thread? Are you suggesting that they are bullying you in their responses? Or is it that you cannot recognise a polite and active debate and show of opinions? If your answer to my last question is "yes", perhaps you should ask yourself if that is because most of them have not immediately agreed with you whole heartedly?

Or you could ignore my response, because I am moderately prolific on this site, and I am questioning your attitude / opinion / posts* ( delete as you see fit ), ergo, I am one of the site dominators.

[postal_jedi]

Look I am not from Postman chat, I've never even been on it. It's always the same, posters don't like what they hear so they shoot the poster. I would say that, yes the Postal Workers on this site are fed up. I would also say that we don't hear from the ones who aren't because as soon as they post they are bullied off the forum. {b]I'm all for debate and opinions, I love them and I don't think anyone should be banned from a site.[/b] As long as they aren't offensive, racist or sexist. [/b]All I am pointing out is that a handfull of posters dominate this site.[/b] As I said, I'm not pro RM or RM management, I just like to hear what other people have to say too. If only to strengthen the arguement against them. I understand some staff like to come on here to rant or let off steam. I would say rant and let off steam at work, where it is productive. Doing it on a forum will gain nothing. The other point I would make is that, yes, I would say a lot of posters are unhappy, but the majority or union members accepted this pay deal. This was something I really, and honestly, didn't expect to happen from reading this posts on this site. Could it be we are becoming out of touch? I really hope not.

Are you saying that the people above are dominating this thread? Are you suggesting that they are bullying you in their responses? Or is it that you cannot recognise a polite and active debate and show of opinions? If your answer to my last question is "yes", perhaps you should ask yourself if that is because most of them have not immediately agreed with you whole heartedly?

Or you could ignore my response, because I am moderately prolific on this site, and I am questioning your attitude / opinion / posts* ( delete as you see fit ), ergo, I am one of the site dominators.

Not at all Smokerjim. Everyone is being very polite and informative.

[Night Tonic]

n.t . 'disclosure' seems to have you rattled somewhat you seem to want to frighten everyone ? quite posible some of the people i know might well use your forum if 'aviation' related or might be intrested but alas some have rotor blades do you cover those ? and one has a lear cover that ?. post it and i'll tell you if they do ....

There are some things you don't do and I'm obviously not going to give too much away as my forum makes it clear who I am. Disclosure is something I've had to look at myself as there are so many sides to running a forum. I'm certainly not trying to frighten anyone - merely trying to point out the difficulties that go hand in glove with running them. Obviously a site about planes (and yes we do cover props) is less likely to face the same challenges as RMC faces but its as well that all members are aware of their responsibilities not just to themselves but the person kind enough to run and host the forum.

[Big Daz]

That site certainly did change direction , all of a sudden , SA , SJV came down hard on anything remotely critical of RM's board , everything was driven byHellmail right wing union bashing articles . Hellmail bragged about zapping troublemakers as there was "too much dirty linen aired in public " before they closed .

The Hellmail article stated the site had served it's purpose with the dispute over .

I don't believe all this rubbish about the " selfless" site owner having to turn down promotion. I'm sure certain people will be looked after for telling RM what they want to hear .

I've never known "a relaxing lounge bar " according to Hellmail ,in which you'll soon feel a heavy hand on your collar from the bouncers for being off message

How earth do you turn down promotion from postman to manager? I thought that you had to apply, go a training course and once the training is complete you are then free to apply for managerial vacanies for which you may or may not get. I wasnt aware that RM simply came along and handed mangerial roles out !


Superadmin turning down promotin is a load of nonsense I.M.H.O

[andy2007]

Postal_jedi is making a good point. Those who wanted a yes vote, did get a hard time on here. And that often included a barage of insults. Even though one of them had been widely praised by us, for leaking important information during the secret negotiations.

That is hardly the attitude to have, if we want an informed debate. I voted no, and have explained my reasons for doing so, both here and at work. But I feel very strongly, that as the Union is a Democracy, we should ALL have been able to voice our opinions. That was only possible for the very bravest people from the yes camp, and that could well be why we lost the vote (in my opinion). Because you can't change people's minds by intimidation. You should always strive to convince them of the REASONS why you believe they are wrong. And through an open and frank debate, you can hopefully change their minds.

Just look at what happened with the "Way Forward" vote. Very few people said that they would vote yes for it before the vote, and no-one will admit to voting for it now. Yet, it was voted in. People were simply too scared to stand up for what they believed in. Perhaps the time has come to WELCOME alternative views, and debate things properly.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Actually just to make sure everyone is stating the same facts. They yes vote was a majority decision from those who voted, however taking the whole union into account it was a minority acceptance 64% of those voting accepted the offer but only 64% did vote. This means that 40.96% accepted, 23.04 % rejected and 36% did not vote.

However in my hearts of hearts I know that if everyone had voted the deal would have been accepted on probably the same split.

[jafferpants]

I dont object to anyone puting a view across on here what ever it might be. What i do object to is when it cant be backed up with a reasoned arguement. How many times has someone posted something and then when you start to dig in to their point they start to contradict themselves and cant give you any basis for what they are saying. Then of course there are the ones who's only aim is to wind people up and they deserve everything they get. Iv'e always followed the principle of if you cant take it dont give it and you'll be left alone. As for members of the public beware,
if you come on here having a go at things you know nothing about because you happen to read some s**t somewhere. Then don't be suprised if your abused. I for one am pissed off with people whinging on and on about aspects of the service that are beyond my control. Once in the dim distant passed i would stand and take it but not anymore.

MERRY XMAS TO ALL OUR READERS LOVE US OR HATE US YOU CERTAINLY CANT IGNORE US

[smokerjim]

I dont object to anyone puting a view across on here what ever it might be. What i do object to is when it cant be backed up with a reasoned arguement. How many times has someone posted something and then when you start to dig in to their point they start to contradict themselves and cant give you any basis for what they are saying. Then of course there are the ones who's only aim is to wind people up and they deserve everything they get. Iv'e always followed the principle of if you cant take it dont give it and you'll be left alone. As for members of the public beware,
if you come on here having a go at things you know nothing about because you happen to read some s**t somewhere. Then don't be suprised if your abused. I for one am pissed off with people whinging on and on about aspects of the service that are beyond my control. Once in the dim distant passed i would stand and take it but not anymore.

MERRY XMAS TO ALL OUR READERS LOVE US OR HATE US YOU CERTAINLY CANT IGNORE US

Couldn't have put it better myself JP