The union booby trap for No 10

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 08 Dec 2007, 15:54

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 019044.ece

Labour may have thought the party funding row was fading. Wait till the union affiliation issue reignites
Matthew Parris

Nothing sells a scandal better than discovery. When a stone is lifted for the first time and something unpleasant crawls into the light, a nation draws up its skirts in horror. But to ask our fellow citizens to be shocked at something that has been going on openly for years is a taller order. Gordon Brown, however, may just have handed the Tories the means to do so.

David Abrahams's gifts to Labour are dwarfed by the trade unions'. About Â£10 million is being taken by stealth from union members every year, and given to a party that many of them do not support. They are not being informed of their right to opt out, nor even (in many cases) that they are contributing.

In the past six years for which I've seen figures, Â£85 million was collected by trade unions from their members and given to the party that governs Britain. In return the party gave these unions massive voting rights in its policy decisions and its leadership elections.

But approach the websites of Amicus, Bectu, BFAWU, Aslef, Aspect, Community, Connect, CWU, EIS, FBU, GMB, NASUWT, Prospect, RMT, TGWU, Ucatt, Unity or Usdaw as a would-be applicant for membership, and in no case that I can establish does the online application form notify you of your right to opt out of the system of â€œaffiliationâ€

Big Daz · Post by **Big Daz** » 08 Dec 2007, 19:02

FBU are not a affilate any more!

Tut Tut !

davidessex · Post by **davidessex** » 08 Dec 2007, 19:06

your missing the point. brown would not open up this can of worms if it wasn,t ready to be replaced. i gaurentee political parties will be funded by the taxpayer as the answer to this "moral" problem of donations. so if labour lose union donations they will get them back off each member and every other tax payer. the money will go to the other parties too. and smugly everyone will say its then fair, until they realise its true cost to the public.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 08 Dec 2007, 19:09

Of course he also ignores or is not aware that the political fund does not just go to the Labour Party, very poor journalism, more like gloating than a news story or an opinion.

Big Daz · Post by **Big Daz** » 08 Dec 2007, 19:23

And why dosent he praise Unison whose political fund is set up in a manner that he wouldnt be able to criticise?

http://www.unison.org.uk/acrobat/B1016.pdf

norbet colon · Post by **norbet colon** » 09 Dec 2007, 15:59

Big Daz wrote:FBU are not a affilate any more!

Tut Tut !

neither are the RMT , the New Labour tactic is to get "quotes" from Senior New Labour figures like " these w****rs aren't even in the party anymore " printed in The Sun along with the anti-union editorials .

Brown would rather go the US way like with The Democrats /Republicans as Union Donations is too Old Labour .

The problem was that people got the party back after Foot & Benn etc + the longest suicide note in History which the Tories had printed & distributed , but lost any semblance of socialisim , european social democracy was as much as people could hope for , then we had a neo-liberal version of the Militant Tendancy hi-jacking everything .

Politics just goes in circles .

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- Byers was the one with Mandy, that appointed Leighton, p****d myself laughing reading about his encounter with "Councillor Slapper " in the Sunday Mirror .

jemima · Post by **jemima** » 09 Dec 2007, 19:16

New Labour isn't working.... it's a seedy tory lookalike....

Gordon Brown's becoming detached from his own party....

Public funding for political parties? Who decides what constitutes a valid party? Will a Monster Raving Loony candidate get the same amount of money for an election campaign as the Labour candidate? Could anyone be allowed to start a new party to get the funding?

It would be much simpler for Labour to reinvent itself as Real Labour. Let the party ditch all dodgy business funding, develop policies which support workers, and justify the Unions' investment.

Or if that's impossible, let's create a new party - drawn from the Unions and funded by them unless there's taxpayers' money being handed out - a true labour party....

Big Daz · Post by **Big Daz** » 09 Dec 2007, 20:26

jemima wrote:New Labour isn't working.... it's a seedy tory lookalike....

Gordon Brown's becoming detached from his own party....

Public funding for political parties? Who decides what constitutes a valid party? Will a Monster Raving Loony candidate get the same amount of money for an election campaign as the Labour candidate? Could anyone be allowed to start a new party to get the funding?

It would be much simpler for Labour to reinvent itself as Real Labour. Let the party ditch all dodgy business funding, develop policies which support workers, and justify the Unions' investment.

Or if that's impossible, let's create a new party - drawn from the Unions and funded by them unless there's taxpayers' money being handed out - a true labour party....

How do we reclaim the Labour party then from the plonkers?

Big Daz · Post by **Big Daz** » 09 Dec 2007, 20:32

To answer my own question

Any labour MP should be allowed to stand for leader of the party without having to worry about enough nominations would be a step in the right direction. Complete travesty that the rank and file were denied a vote on who should be leader due to some stupid rule!

A full blown contest/debate between Brown and Mc donnell with two distinct choices would have been superb!

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 09 Dec 2007, 20:35

Big Daz wrote:How do we reclaim the Labour party then from the plonkers?

I'd say that was an impossible task. Everything is stacked against the working class man or woman these days. Personally, I have no faith in the parliamentary system to effect permanent change on our behalf, but I can understand the desire f people to have a party they feel is their own. The 'plonkers' have always been there: McDonald, Arthur Henderson, Jimmy Thomas. But there were better people about such as George Lansbury, Ben Tillett, Ellen Wilkinson who seem to have had the interests of the working class at heart. These days, no one springs to mind who does that inside the Labour Party. Skinner seems more like the class clown than anything else and is part and parcel of the system. I think there's about as much hope of winning the Liberals for the workers as every time someone turns up in Labour bearing a resemblence to a socialist, he/she ends up getting expelled.

DirtyHarry · Post by **DirtyHarry** » 09 Dec 2007, 20:53

IWW Fellow Worker wrote:
Big Daz wrote:How do we reclaim the Labour party then from the plonkers?
I'd say that was an impossible task. Everything is stacked against the working class man or woman these days. Personally, I have no faith in the parliamentary system to effect permanent change on our behalf, but I can understand the desire f people to have a party they feel is their own. The 'plonkers' have always been there: McDonald, Arthur Henderson, Jimmy Thomas. But there were better people about such as George Lansbury, Ben Tillett, Ellen Wilkinson who seem to have had the interests of the working class at heart. These days, no one springs to mind who does that inside the Labour Party. Skinner seems more like the class clown than anything else and is part and parcel of the system. I think there's about as much hope of winning the Liberals for the workers as every time someone turns up in Labour bearing a resemblence to a socialist, he/she ends up getting expelled.

Well said, mate. If there is one place here in the UK where working people have no representation at all, that place is parliament, and it's hard to see that sorry state of affairs changing in the near future.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 10 Dec 2007, 08:25

DirtyHarry wrote:
IWW Fellow Worker wrote:
Big Daz wrote:How do we reclaim the Labour party then from the plonkers?
I'd say that was an impossible task. Everything is stacked against the working class man or woman these days. Personally, I have no faith in the parliamentary system to effect permanent change on our behalf, but I can understand the desire f people to have a party they feel is their own. The 'plonkers' have always been there: McDonald, Arthur Henderson, Jimmy Thomas. But there were better people about such as George Lansbury, Ben Tillett, Ellen Wilkinson who seem to have had the interests of the working class at heart. These days, no one springs to mind who does that inside the Labour Party. Skinner seems more like the class clown than anything else and is part and parcel of the system. I think there's about as much hope of winning the Liberals for the workers as every time someone turns up in Labour bearing a resemblence to a socialist, he/she ends up getting expelled.
Well said, mate. If there is one place here in the UK where working people have no representation at all, that place is parliament, and it's hard to see that sorry state of affairs changing in the near future.

The same old ludicrous whining.
Do you really believe this stuff, or is it the mere repetition of something you heard some other numb-nuts say down the pub, and thought it sounded intelligent?

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 10 Dec 2007, 14:24

Tman wrote:
DirtyHarry wrote:
IWW Fellow Worker wrote:
Big Daz wrote:How do we reclaim the Labour party then from the plonkers?
I'd say that was an impossible task. Everything is stacked against the working class man or woman these days. Personally, I have no faith in the parliamentary system to effect permanent change on our behalf, but I can understand the desire f people to have a party they feel is their own. The 'plonkers' have always been there: McDonald, Arthur Henderson, Jimmy Thomas. But there were better people about such as George Lansbury, Ben Tillett, Ellen Wilkinson who seem to have had the interests of the working class at heart. These days, no one springs to mind who does that inside the Labour Party. Skinner seems more like the class clown than anything else and is part and parcel of the system. I think there's about as much hope of winning the Liberals for the workers as every time someone turns up in Labour bearing a resemblence to a socialist, he/she ends up getting expelled.
Well said, mate. If there is one place here in the UK where working people have no representation at all, that place is parliament, and it's hard to see that sorry state of affairs changing in the near future.
The same old ludicrous whining.
Do you really believe this stuff, or is it the mere repetition of something you heard some other numb-nuts say down the pub, and thought it sounded intelligent?

and are you ever going to put your own position in a post all you seem to do is belittle peoples honestly held points of view if they happen to leaning at all to the left. I am all for open argument but I see little of that coming from your direction.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 10 Dec 2007, 14:37

TMan these are the contributions you have made in recent days to the discussion on left politics:

(This is my own opinion and I am not acting as a Moderator)

Yeah, you said.
Now, remind me again of the benefits so-called the Hard Left have ever achieved for the average Joe?
Note, providing a free supply of toilet paper nominally called the "Socialist Worker" doesn't count here.

On reflection, I wish I hadn't replied and justified your post either, as you're either a wind-up-merchant or deluded, but in reply to the post of yours, (as quoted above), whatever you think of Blair or Brown is irrelevant as you stated originally that Labour and the union officials have been the "enemies" for "generations" ie decades, and New Labour haven't been in power for that long. Or is it a little goalpost realignment to cover the silly-bollix statement?
Maybe I'll be generous, and "deluded" it is then.

Is anyone still being taken in by all this old toffee?
Is there anyone left who still thinks that the old Left wing sects like SWP etc are anything other than talking shops for the romantics and disaffected?
In fact, like the Flat Earthers, do they have ANY relevance as a political force in the 21 century, given that their aims are so divergent from just about everyone else in society?
The SWP were seen as laughable even back in the 1970s. The Austin All-aggro of political groups, no less.

Now having read through your posts over the last 10 minutes I have to say you do contribute quite a bit too threads and that is appreciated the only concern (and not with my Moderator hat on) I have is that you appear to want to belittle other people political views but you don't seem to want to discuss them in a balanced way. But of course in a democracy that is not only your choice to do so but it also your right.

DirtyHarry · Post by **DirtyHarry** » 10 Dec 2007, 15:51

Tman wrote:
DirtyHarry wrote:
IWW Fellow Worker wrote:
Big Daz wrote:How do we reclaim the Labour party then from the plonkers?
I'd say that was an impossible task. Everything is stacked against the working class man or woman these days. Personally, I have no faith in the parliamentary system to effect permanent change on our behalf, but I can understand the desire f people to have a party they feel is their own. The 'plonkers' have always been there: McDonald, Arthur Henderson, Jimmy Thomas. But there were better people about such as George Lansbury, Ben Tillett, Ellen Wilkinson who seem to have had the interests of the working class at heart. These days, no one springs to mind who does that inside the Labour Party. Skinner seems more like the class clown than anything else and is part and parcel of the system. I think there's about as much hope of winning the Liberals for the workers as every time someone turns up in Labour bearing a resemblence to a socialist, he/she ends up getting expelled.
Well said, mate. If there is one place here in the UK where working people have no representation at all, that place is parliament, and it's hard to see that sorry state of affairs changing in the near future.
The same old ludicrous whining.
Do you really believe this stuff, or is it the mere repetition of something you heard some other numb-nuts say down the pub, and thought it sounded intelligent?

No, I genuinely believe that the ordinary working man/woman has no representation at all in parliament. I'm a funny sort of bloke, it's actions not words, that helps me make my own mind up about whether we (the working class) have a voice in parliament or not. From what I can see, we have a Liebour government which couldn't give a fig about whether workers get a decent wage or not, or care about predatory so-called businessmen, some of whom this government have actually appointed, intent on worsening the terms and conditions of work for many, many, thousands of people.
No, I have eyes to see, and ears to hear, am working class and proud of it, am a postman, or as Gordon Brown put it, one of "those people" he wanted to get back to work regardless of whether there was a deal or not, and am damn sure working people are bereft of even the tiniest semblance of representation in the UK parliament.