Sent back out whilst others do overtime

[mjd24]

So yesterday i myself did some overtime, a couple of bits of someone elses lapsing for an hour or so, signed for before going out on delivery.

I put my foot down and managed to get my duty plus overtime done and wad back at the office about 20 mins after our official finish time . . . whilst being paid for another hour +

Manager saw me get back, chatted about how the overtime was, no comment about not working my hours

Yet, if i hadnt been doing any extra, and had arrived back to the office half an hour- 40 mins earlier, theres a good chance id have been sent back out with a packet or two, for no extra pay

Its madness!

[Woody Guthrie]

Its madness!

It's not really.
It's an understanding of an unwritten and unofficial overtime rate in the business that's existed between managers and staff since the beginning of time.

There are two legitimate ways to incentivise overtime.

1. Offer a decent overtime rate.
2. Pay over the odds for the work.

If you don't have one you need the other.

[clashcityrocker]

Its madness!

It's not really.
It's an understanding of an unwritten and unofficial overtime rate in the business that's existed between managers and staff since the beginning of time.

But it is at odds with a national agreement that talks about utilising all paid hours.
I understand the need to incentivise overtime when it is overtime, but not when it is within contracted hours.

[mjd24]

Its madness!

It's not really.
It's an understanding of an unwritten and unofficial overtime rate in the business that's existed between managers and staff since the beginning of time.

There are two legitimate ways to incentivise overtime.

1. Offer a decent overtime rate.
2. Pay over the odds for the work.

If you don't have one you need the other.

Which i agree with.

But dont send people back out when they get back a bit early.

[andyman606]

Why is our overtime rate less than our standard rate per hour after the first ten hours this drops by upto 25% so if you do 7 hours overtime you are only getting paid for 5.15 hours. We are the only job where you get paid less for doing overtime so if a few hours are ghosted they were probably owed anyway!

[Woody Guthrie]

Its madness!

It's not really.
It's an understanding of an unwritten and unofficial overtime rate in the business that's existed between managers and staff since the beginning of time.

But it is at odds with a national agreement that talks about utilising all paid hours.
I understand the need to incentivise overtime when it is overtime, but not when it is within contracted hours.

The whole "what to do with staff who come back early" is very complex.

In order to have a standard that the vast majority can comfortably cope with you have to set the bar at a pretty low level.
People work at different rates.
Duties are very difficult to equalise.
Even two equal duties will vary on different days.
What do we do with any excess work left in the office, do we give it to the first 5 guys back?
If we do then what do we do with the next 5 guys who come in 10 minutes later?
Do they get to go home?
Where do you draw the imaginary line?
30 mins early?
15 mins early?
Do we under resource an office to the point where there's enough excess work to cover everybody coming back early ?
What if nobody comes back early, how does a manager then cover this work at 3pm, hope that they find someone who's up for it?

Even back in the days of two deliveries and ASAP we had people hanging out their duties so they wouldn't have to do as much and that was with a fixed finish time.
Do we want to go down that route?

[postslippete]

I do query how the business could possibly utilise PDA efficiency when some postie's are ghosting overtime and still finish on time. I mean if you gave those brown nosers more work to do on their duty unpaid, they would probably slow down and forget about working any additional.

So where does that leave management on the unofficial and unwritten overtime rate?? - well they can get off their bleeding ar@@e and deliver it themselves.

I've fed up of these docket clowns tearing up their own duties just so the office can lapse which they always end up delivering on overtime as well. But not before we get sone grief from managers for not taking the lapse first!!

[rambo1]

Its madness!

It's not really.
It's an understanding of an unwritten and unofficial overtime rate in the business that's existed between managers and staff since the beginning of time.

But it is at odds with a national agreement that talks about utilising all paid hours.
I understand the need to incentivise overtime when it is overtime, but not when it is within contracted hours.

The whole "what to do with staff who come back early" is very complex.

In order to have a standard that the vast majority can comfortably cope with you have to set the bar at a pretty low level.
People work at different rates.
Duties are very difficult to equalise.
Even two equal duties will vary on different days.
What do we do with any excess work left in the office, do we give it to the first 5 guys back?
If we do then what do we do with the next 5 guys who come in 10 minutes later?
Do they get to go home?
Where do you draw the imaginary line?
30 mins early?
15 mins early?
Do we under resource an office to the point where there's enough excess work to cover everybody coming back early ?
What if nobody comes back early, how does a manager then cover this work at 3pm, hope that they find someone who's up for it?

Even back in the days of two deliveries and ASAP we had people hanging out their duties so they wouldn't have to do as much and that was with a fixed finish time.
Do we want to go down that route?

Manger. 3pm? You're kidding, right? We need a clocking system to sort all this out. You get paid for just the hrs you work. If lots are getting back early then the office needs a revision. Ghost overtime really shouldn't be paid. If you want the overtime, do it but don't expect to be paid for sitting on your but at home coz you finish early on your own walk. That's just not fair on your workmates some of which actually never finish on time, not because they're slow but because the walks are unmanageable in the time allowed.

[NewPostieUK]

He isn't arguing against being asked to work all his paid hours.
He is arguing against only some people being asked to, while others are allowed to ghost.

He should be arguing against ghost overtime. I think most of us agree that we should work the hours we get paid.

You can't say that it's OK to get sent back out if you get back early, but only if nobody is doing ghost overtime.

Nobody should be doing ghost overtime regardless.

[Woody Guthrie]

It's not enough to say everyone should work the hours they're paid without explaining how that can be achieved fairly.

You can only work the hours you're paid if there's enough work in front of you otherwise you're not working you're just attending.

So the question becomes how do you put enough work in front of your staff without overloading some/most of them.

[clashcityrocker]

So if you sit there twiddling your thumbs but not actually doing anything .......
They could call us all line managers?

[weary_posty]

There’s a very simple solution to this.

Start at your official start time
Take your break
Finish at your official finish time

If yourself and the others came back on time then you wouldn’t be sent back out. This means there is more work to cover and you can be damn sure the DOM will soon have the ghosters picking up that excess.

[Navalron]

You are moaning because you are expected to work your hours? Can't see that you really have a case here, my round takes me to my time every day, so it's hard to have much sympathy that you or others are forced to finish the same time as me? I do think that ghost overtime will become a thing of the past and sooner rather than later and then I am sure you will no longer feel to hard done by. Because when no one does overtime, everybody will have to go back out with lapsing to take them up to their full hours, everyday of the year!

No they won't because there will be about 15% less staff in most offices. Collapsing duties (lapsing) will be done away with as (you own your walk) comes in. It is going to be voulantery at first but when the majority get back to having their own walks the RM board will get what they have wanted for years. And it's not going to be in the way that was originally planned, ie, you own everything on your walk and it must be delivered, no their will be a bonus system alongside it. It's going to be an office bonus not an individual one. They might even bring in area bonuses. So there putting area against area. What will the union do? Eff all because they can't get ANYTHING done these days. Time for change at the top as ward and co still think that there's still 2 deliveries a day and everyone is back home by 11am.