Working set hours only

[steve1873]

It will take you a little time to get up to speed but if you're going over by 2 hours every day then something is quite wrong.
I can imaging a manager not being overly happy to pay you that much extra when someone else can do the same job for much less.
You are not obliged to work past your hours but when you're new to the job it's inevitable that you'll run out of time quite regularly.
What is it that's causing you the bulk of your extra time? Is it that you're having to do too much prepping before you go out, that you're being put on walks you're unfamiliar with or that you're not a particularly fast walker?
How many walks have you been put on in the 3 weeks since you started?

Utter nonsense of a reply. The op only has 4.5 hours to complete his entire delivery inclusive of any inddor work he is not resourced to do.

[steve1873]

You may not be doing anything wrong or slow - find out if the person doing it on your day off start at 830 and finish without going over while completing it all and lapsing?

The nous to chip away time here and there will come. Like knowing who's family/friends and who you can leave packets with - without even thinking about it etc etc.

Basically figure out where you are at 130 routinely and the next day.... tell the manager you won't be taking the rest out.... I'm assuming 2/3 loops.

Prior to 1330 as op has to grt back to office for that time. But good advice otherwise.

[POSTMAN]

It will take you a little time to get up to speed but if you're going over by 2 hours every day then something is quite wrong.
I can imaging a manager not being overly happy to pay you that much extra when someone else can do the same job for much less.
You are not obliged to work past your hours but when you're new to the job it's inevitable that you'll run out of time quite regularly.
What is it that's causing you the bulk of your extra time? Is it that you're having to do too much prepping before you go out, that you're being put on walks you're unfamiliar with or that you're not a particularly fast walker?
How many walks have you been put on in the 3 weeks since you started?

Utter nonsense of a reply. The op only has 4.5 hours to complete his entire delivery inclusive of any inddor work he is not resourced to do.

Your previous answer was really good, but this one not so, and this is why arguments can start on here.
He was only trying to find out more info, not nonsense at all.

[NewPostieUK]

I started working with RM just over 3 weeks ago, I am on a 25hr contract (8.30am to 1.30pm)

All new starters in my office start on 25 hrs, yet there isn't a single duty planned with this in mind. Not one single 25hr duty.

I seriously doubt the duty you are doing is meant to be done in five hours. If it is, then you almost certainly should have no indoor work. Don't forget you get 30 mins break and time for van checks.

Why not ask the manager? Ask him to put in writing a breakdown of your duty. What you do indoors and how long it should take. How long the outdoor element should take and what you do when you get back.

I bet my bottom dollar its a 6 hr duty and that's not including prep. He'll have to pay you at least an hour overtime every single day, or arrange for someone to take out half the duty so you can get back for 1.30.

As for lapsing that's an absolute joke. No way should you be doing lapsing.

[steve1873]

It will take you a little time to get up to speed but if you're going over by 2 hours every day then something is quite wrong.
I can imaging a manager not being overly happy to pay you that much extra when someone else can do the same job for much less.
You are not obliged to work past your hours but when you're new to the job it's inevitable that you'll run out of time quite regularly.
What is it that's causing you the bulk of your extra time? Is it that you're having to do too much prepping before you go out, that you're being put on walks you're unfamiliar with or that you're not a particularly fast walker?
How many walks have you been put on in the 3 weeks since you started?

Utter nonsense of a reply. The op only has 4.5 hours to complete his entire delivery inclusive of any inddor work he is not resourced to do.

Your previous answer was really good, but this one not so, and this is why arguments can start on here.
He was only trying to find out more info, not nonsense at all.

I disagree. The initial part of the reply made it sound like there was something wrong with OP's performance if he was having to go over everyday. It's quite clear why, with a 5 hour contract that going over is actually pretty much a guarantee regardless of experience and for someone in the job 3 weeks to be expected to complete within a 5 hour shift probably closer to 7 hours work and have a meal relief is an impossibility.

Granted the rest of the post enquiring as to reasons was perhaps not nonsense, but it's not hard to recognise why the op is going over. More workload than is achievable in the alloted time.

[mjd24]

I feel so sorry for these new starters who join Royal Mail on what on paper looks like ideal working hours, then slowly as the days go by realise that in order to complete the workload within those hours they have to be some sort of Superman or magician.

And the managers, rather than helping, almost seem intent on pressuring these people to quit.

Its a joke, like so many things within this company.

[Murdoch]

I feel so sorry for these new starters who join Royal Mail on what on paper looks like ideal working hours, then slowly as the days go by realise that in order to complete the workload within those hours they have to be some sort of Superman or magician.

And the managers, rather than helping, almost seem intent on pressuring these people to quit.

Its a joke, like so many things within this company.

Exactly right. There seems to be an expectation within Royal Mail, that anybody that has a "part time" contract initially, doesn't actually want a "part time" contact, they want the elusive full-time contact that no longer exists, so are just expected to work all the hours on overtime.

The OP's example of a part-time duty, that isn't actually part-time, is just one example I've seen happen on countless occasions, the new starts feel like they are failing at the job, because they can't do it within "time". I've worked every type of duty possible, and know first hand some part-time duties that are longer and more work, than some of the cushy rurals that haven't had a revision in 15 years.

But frequently in my area, you're hired on something like a 20-25 as a reserve, and then spend your life covering 38 hour duties, and there's literally no way to work your actual hours. So the reserves just suck it up and work it all on overtime.

So yes, sure you can just work your contracted hours if you straight up refuse to go over. However, there is an engrained culture within Royal Mail, that makes it a constant battle, managers pressuring you, other colleagues making comments if you cut off. You need to have a thick skin, and know how the place operates a bit, to go against the grain, most new starts just end up sucking it up, or leaving. We really need to change the culture in that regard.

[ArthurPewty]

The pressure put on P/T staff to 'conform' from their FT colleagues is a disgrace. As you say, 95% of new starters either quit or do the O/T even if they don't want to, just to avoid incurring the wrath of their 'colleagues'. Leave a loop and the tutting starts, leave 2 and the comments and moaning start. Why can't they see it's the DOM/RM who should be on the receiving end, not the poor old P/T OPG who can't fit 4.5 hours of delivery (nearer 5 hrs with lapsing!!) into the 3 hrs 45 mins they've got left out of their 4.5 hr shift (after re-di's, bundling, loading HCT/van)

[Grumpyoldmailman]

The pressure put on P/T staff to 'conform' from their FT colleagues is a disgrace. As you say, 95% of new starters either quit or do the O/T even if they don't want to, just to avoid incurring the wrath of their 'colleagues'. Leave a loop and the tutting starts, leave 2 and the comments and moaning start. Why can't they see it's the DOM/RM who should be on the receiving end, not the poor old P/T OPG who can't fit 4.5 hours of delivery (nearer 5 hrs with lapsing!!) into the 3 hrs 45 mins they've got left out of their 4.5 hr shift (after re-di's, bundling, loading HCT/van)

Strongly agree and with the post further up as well. It’s a disgrace when all is said and done, people left stressed by feeling inadequate when they are not and 75% of them arriving into work well before their time to save them from the crap you have detailed.

[eggraidonmojo]

I started working with RM just over 3 weeks ago, I am on a 25hr contract (8.30am to 1.30pm) I accepted this position to fit in with my childcare requirements after working full time in an office environment. I understand it will take "time" to get my rhythm and speed up in regard to completing my route...so far I'm finishing around 3.30pm each day. Speaking with another postie in my depot, they said it is my choice to work "overtime" and I can simply finish at 1.30pm...is this true?

At this time, my manager is paying me overtime...get the feeling this is not going to last much longer, as I was asked to take an additional day off last week instead of getting paid my overtime

Just to say, three weeks is nothing to be up to speed. I train new starters at my office and it is two weeks before they even go out on a full walk (granted, it was pre-covid the last time I trained a new starter). It is at least three months - maybe six - before they stop being 'slow'. And if they get fast too quickly - that's reason to be suspicious!

When you're out on delivery it's important to get the basics right - scan, don't misdeliver, stay safe, attempt neighbours where possible, don't drive like an idiot etc. - but at the same time think about whether you could do anything quicker: are you faffing about looking for your pen or your 739s, or your pda, each time you're at a door? Is your van organised? How is your walking speed? Does writing 739s take too long?

In truth though, you're probably fine and all this stuff comes fairly naturally so don't stress too much...

I would say that, as a new starter, help out as much as you can - no point throwing your toys out the pram like a twenty-year postie does - but if you have childcare commitments make it absolutely clear that you have to meet those commitments.

How do you do that? Before you leave the office, and as soon as you realise this is more work than you can finish in your time inform the manager. Don't get drawn into arguments, just say "don't think I can complete today, what would you like me to do?"

A good manager will take some work off you (if you're doing absorption/lapsing, that's the first thing that should go) and/or arrange a telephone call -usually, you call them later in your delivery to tell them how you're getting on: "it's going to be x loops that I'm bringing back". [This is the cut off procedure and it should be in the downloads section of the union room forum, I think]

Even if there is no one to cover the work on overtime, you can still cut off. The manager may say 'well, the work will still be there tomorrow', but this is tomorrow's problem, not today's (and if the work keeps building up there are inevitably going to be more cut offs in the future).

Your office needs a union rep, but if you need help or support get in touch with your branch/area rep: https://www.cwu.org/contact-us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope that helps!

[Pumpernickel]

I started working with RM just over 3 weeks ago, I am on a 25hr contract (8.30am to 1.30pm) I accepted this position to fit in with my childcare requirements after working full time in an office environment. I understand it will take "time" to get my rhythm and speed up in regard to completing my route...so far I'm finishing around 3.30pm each day. Speaking with another postie in my depot, they said it is my choice to work "overtime" and I can simply finish at 1.30pm...is this true?

At this time, my manager is paying me overtime...get the feeling this is not going to last much longer, as I was asked to take an additional day off last week instead of getting paid my overtime

Your workload will vary on a daily basis, thus it is impossible to say how long any loop will take on any day until you have your workload in front of you.

It takes a while to learn to estimate what you can complete within your time as you look at the mail on any given day (and even then, experienced people can get it wrong).

If you need to finish at your finishing time, you just let your manager know BEFORE you head out to deliver, and arrange to bring back any undelivered mail (you may recieve instructons on what to prioritise here, such as "tracked and special items must be delivered", which you may need to accommodate at the expense of something else). If you can (and want to) do some overtime, then it is you that sets the limit of that overtime (but be clear).

Take your break too! It may be that your office generally "finish early" instead (ie have their break at the end, this doesn't happen everywhere though), but watch for your break time whatever.

[xPandabear1992x]

Thanks for your reply. I don't think I'm a slow Walker?? It's taking me 30mins to prep letters & small packages and about 10mins to prep large parcels and load the van. I have 10 loops, covering just over 18k & approx 660 possible houses to deliver too. I also have 1 additional daily lapsing loop too. It's been suggested that I complete each loop in 30mins (that equals 5.5hrs anyway...not including driving & parcel delivery time) I've been on the same walk since I started (5 days a week) and it's in and around my actual neighbourhood too.

My expectation of the role was to work between 8.30am to 1.30pm...I took the job so I could have a better work/life balance and be home for the school runs. I totally understand my day will be subject to volume of mail & weather conditions. What my question is...am I within my rights to turn round and say I have to finish at 1.30pm, even if I've not completed my rounds? And I'm totally aware that I'm only on a temporary contract until June 2021, so feels like I could get fired at anytime

well within your rights.

Assuming you're also prepping your round as well as each loop taking half hour, you're guaranteed to be working overtime every day. Overtime which is voluntary. As has been said on this forum many times if you don't want to work O/T don't worry. Let management worry about covering the left overs.

[xPandabear1992x]

The pressure put on P/T staff to 'conform' from their FT colleagues is a disgrace. As you say, 95% of new starters either quit or do the O/T even if they don't want to, just to avoid incurring the wrath of their 'colleagues'. Leave a loop and the tutting starts, leave 2 and the comments and moaning start. Why can't they see it's the DOM/RM who should be on the receiving end, not the poor old P/T OPG who can't fit 4.5 hours of delivery (nearer 5 hrs with lapsing!!) into the 3 hrs 45 mins they've got left out of their 4.5 hr shift (after re-di's, bundling, loading HCT/van)

As a p/t staffer I can totally relate. The whole p/t / f/t thing doesn't matter, when you take into account both* work the same hours. In my experience though p/t tend not to whine about it but f/t staff constantly have a bone to pick over it. It's institutionalised b&h.

*there's far more work for a late starter to do and no chance of finishing early and getting paid for the pleasure.

[rambo1]

Standard Royal Mail company practice unfortunately = take people on on a contract with insufficient hours for the workload. Less to pay them when on leave.

Office practice in far too many offices = give the newbies every Tuesday off. It means they'll work every Saturday.

Neither your fault, especially while you are learning and getting up to speed.

Not only on leave but pension contributions too. Most new starters don't realise that pension is only based on your contract hrs, even if you rack up full time hrs with overtime.

[Grumpyoldmailman]

Most new starters don't realise that pension is only based on your contract hrs, even if you rack up full time hrs with overtime.

That’s not true, pension contributions are paid on overtime.