Van sharing from Monday

[PostmanBitesDog]

Nevermind sharing vans as the second wave stats get worse, what happened to the e-trikes talked about last year?

Where are the extra MK2 hcts for the ex-passengers?

Where are the extra hire vans usually resourced in the Xmas build up?

Why aren't drivers being sent out on daily early parcel only runs, having got parcels processed by early starters, like we do in the run up to Xmas?

And what about those backbreaking, low-level letter slots that were supposed to be banned from newly-built homes?

[Celgar]

We had a combined WTLL session on going back to shared vans and the new collect parcels while on delivery thing.
Apparently up until this decision the CWU have been working behind the scenes to find a way to reintroduce shared vans. Now the RM have come out with their change in policy the CWU have flipped sides and are now against shared vans.

It is voluntary decision if any postie wants to go back to shared vans and you can change your mind at any time. Not going back to shared vans will mean we will stay with the current policy of some posties starting much later. We are not far off the point where it gets dark at about 1600 which makes the job more difficult and time consuming. 'Bubbles' of posties who do shared duties will be formed to limit risk and these 'bubbles will not be broke. So if the 'bubble' system cannot cover all walks offices will revert to the system of earlier and later duties.

The early/later duty system has not worked in terms of getting walks delivered in a timely fashion with less posties available to get the initial sorting completed. RM will want to move away from this system with Xmas on the doorstep and a probable full Covid lockdown sometime between now and Xmas whether we want to do it or not.

[Celgar]

Nevermind sharing vans as the second wave stats get worse, what happened to the e-trikes talked about last year?

Where are the extra MK2 hcts for the ex-passengers?

Where are the extra hire vans usually resourced in the Xmas build up?

Why aren't drivers being sent out on daily early parcel only runs, having got parcels processed by early starters, like we do in the run up to Xmas?

And what about those backbreaking, low-level letter slots that were supposed to be banned from newly-built homes?

That legislation is still going through Parliament but the Brexit and now the Covid is holding everything up. It has support which means it won't be 'talked out' so it will eventually be passed.

[xPandabear1992x]

To be fair, he's against van sharing and has given decent reasons to support that. Credit where due.

He does need to get into offices though to actually see conditions in offices and how many of us are basically not following the guidelines inside with managers ignoring breaches.

This with bells on.

asked a manager for his two cents regarding the situation.

He said that essentially, as it's not compulsory, posties don't really need to have a reason not to share vans, they can just say no. Which I get, that's fair enough. You know, there's loads of reasons from obeying the law, to not mixing with people outside your bubble in enclosed spaces, to people not at the pinacle of health, shielding etc. Fine.

But he also (perhaps rightly) pointed out that there are some posties who have a cushy set up where they only have to do 3 bags of mail and f**k off home because they dont drive etc

It's a mess. A frightful mess. But when it comes down to it, you may want to go back to van sharing, but as soon as someone else says they won't be doing it, that's it.

[Woody Guthrie]

What do you think will happen to those who choose not to van share?

[postslippete]

But still I don't know how your office is coping but we have duties that only get done every other day and it's hell with double mail and double packets now so imagine what it'll be like with the extra Christmas mail. I haven't heard anyone come up with a better alternative

I suspect that once the extra Christmas parcels start turning up then you might have to start leaving something, unless one of you happen to be superhuman and can fit them all in the van and still get finished with time to spare.

In which case, congratulations, and heres some more work off my frame for you.

[xPandabear1992x]

So come Monday when asked if i agree to share a van and i say No. The following day im told " sorry we need your van for this pair who will share, can you do afternoons instead.?
What rights do i have? Will the cwu support me if i refuse to change my shift after 15 years of doing earlies ?

well look, we're in the middle of a pandemic. priority doesn't really matter. if there's two posties who work in the same bubble sorting every day it makes more sense to send them and their mail out early and make a single driver go out late, especially when you take into account specials and the like.

[Cucumber]

What do you think will happen to those who choose not to van share?

Do you have any insight into this?
We have staff who openly admit they will resist van sharing NOT for safety reasons, but to keep with the nice number they have had for 7 months.

[xPandabear1992x]

The only people I know who are desperate for van share, are the people who cannot drive, everybody else hates it.

really? Because all the non-drivers I know do a couple to a few bags a day, get the day paid in full and get to leave early. I don't think they'll be sharing again any time soon.

[yellowbelly]

And what about those backbreaking, low-level letter slots that were supposed to be banned from newly-built homes?

That legislation is still going through Parliament but the Brexit and now the Covid is holding everything up. It has support which means it won't be 'talked out' so it will eventually be passed.

Nope, the bill proposal was withdrawn on 5 March 2019 see here: https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/20 ... ition.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

as it was/is under consideration for inclusion as an amendment to building regs - so said Kit Malthouse (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47457758), who soon departed to another job under a Johnson reshuffle. It's probably sat in the current Minister's or BRAC committee pending tray.....

[Acca Dacca]

We had a combined WTLL session on going back to shared vans and the new collect parcels while on delivery thing.
Apparently up until this decision the CWU have been working behind the scenes to find a way to reintroduce shared vans. Now the RM have come out with their change in policy the CWU have flipped sides and are now against shared vans.

It is voluntary decision if any postie wants to go back to shared vans and you can change your mind at any time. Not going back to shared vans will mean we will stay with the current policy of some posties starting much later. We are not far off the point where it gets dark at about 1600 which makes the job more difficult and time consuming. 'Bubbles' of posties who do shared duties will be formed to limit risk and these 'bubbles will not be broke. So if the 'bubble' system cannot cover all walks offices will revert to the system of earlier and later duties.

The early/later duty system has not worked in terms of getting walks delivered in a timely fashion with less posties available to get the initial sorting completed. RM will want to move away from this system with Xmas on the doorstep and a probable full Covid lockdown sometime between now and Xmas whether we want to do it or not.

In regards to the uinion trying to get it back, you have conveniently left out the issue of cases being through the roof at this moment - the north and Scotland have it real bad.

Its the timing that is the biggest issue in that regard - its madness

If you have procedures in place to reduce risk, you dont stop them until the risk is very very low - not when its higher than it was in summer!

[xPandabear1992x]

As a Health and Safety rep myself i do not see any reason for not van sharing ,if correctly done.
Had the Government said all workers stay at home until a cure for the virus is found then we would all be doing that
Unfortunately we are key workers and have to go to work. Paramedics,police,binmen, council workers, rail workers ...etc are all van sharing There has been no evidence that there has been increased cases of covid 19 due to van share.
The CWU has not been very supportive during this crisis, particularly local reps . They have been almost completely silent for 6 months. Suddenly they come to life and oppose plans to ask staff if they would like to van share.They have no solid reasoning why they oppose it ,other than jump on the " increased covid cases" band wagon.
If they checked the facts ,that increase is due to people socialising in big groups and visiting other places/households not in their own bubble.
If they oppose Van Share then CWU should also oppose working together in delivery offices.Most delivery offices are cramped for space and find it near impossible to find space.
The bottom line is that if we stop working or do our best to avoid working then ultimately Royal Mail will continue to lose even more money and guess what? That means job losses.
Covid 19 aint going away this year or next year. The world health organisation says its very unlikely that a cure will be found . Look at HIV.Nearly 40 years after that virus arrived and still no nearer to cure.
The way to deal with this virus and stay safe is follow guidelines.Wash hands,wear masks and limit contact .
I see the real reasons for CWU members opposing van shares and very few are on the side of health and safety.
Many of those that support CWU (or rather Terry Pullinger and Dave Wards suggestions as the CWU should be members decisions based on truth ) ,they are the same staff who have had the luxury of working by themselves for 6 months doing the same duty every day whilst the partner or other staff members are moved from one duty to another (often with vast workloads).
Thats why the majority are opposing van shares as they look at self interest rather than safety.
There are staff who are suffering mentally from not van sharing anymore. They cant cope with constant change. CWU should take that on board as they are meant to be a lead in "Mental Health".

hear hear. I'm in the same boat as you, the new h&s rep at my office. raised this with the rep. essentially batted off with "this is the union's decision, and so it is yours as well". I get it, there's many reasons a van share will not work at the moment, and the fact they've tried to reintroduce it during another upsurge in cases speaks for itself.

the fact is as much as you or your colleague wear the correct PPE and obey the correct procedures, you have no control over each other's bubble, or who your partner has mixed with. Lets remember while PPE can limit spread it can't stop it.

[Acca Dacca]

As a Health and Safety rep myself i do not see any reason for not van sharing ,if correctly done.
Had the Government said all workers stay at home until a cure for the virus is found then we would all be doing that
Unfortunately we are key workers and have to go to work. Paramedics,police,binmen, council workers, rail workers ...etc are all van sharing There has been no evidence that there has been increased cases of covid 19 due to van share.
The CWU has not been very supportive during this crisis, particularly local reps . They have been almost completely silent for 6 months. Suddenly they come to life and oppose plans to ask staff if they would like to van share.They have no solid reasoning why they oppose it ,other than jump on the " increased covid cases" band wagon.
If they checked the facts ,that increase is due to people socialising in big groups and visiting other places/households not in their own bubble.
If they oppose Van Share then CWU should also oppose working together in delivery offices.Most delivery offices are cramped for space and find it near impossible to find space.
The bottom line is that if we stop working or do our best to avoid working then ultimately Royal Mail will continue to lose even more money and guess what? That means job losses.
Covid 19 aint going away this year or next year. The world health organisation says its very unlikely that a cure will be found . Look at HIV.Nearly 40 years after that virus arrived and still no nearer to cure.
The way to deal with this virus and stay safe is follow guidelines.Wash hands,wear masks and limit contact .
I see the real reasons for CWU members opposing van shares and very few are on the side of health and safety.
Many of those that support CWU (or rather Terry Pullinger and Dave Wards suggestions as the CWU should be members decisions based on truth ) ,they are the same staff who have had the luxury of working by themselves for 6 months doing the same duty every day whilst the partner or other staff members are moved from one duty to another (often with vast workloads).
Thats why the majority are opposing van shares as they look at self interest rather than safety.
There are staff who are suffering mentally from not van sharing anymore. They cant cope with constant change. CWU should take that on board as they are meant to be a lead in "Mental Health".

hear hear. I'm in the same boat as you, the new h&s rep at my office. raised this with the rep. essentially batted off with "this is the union's decision, and so it is yours as well". I get it, there's many reasons a van share will not work at the moment, and the fact they've tried to reintroduce it during another upsurge in cases speaks for itself.

the fact is as much as you or your colleague wear the correct PPE and obey the correct procedures, you have no control over each other's bubble, or who your partner has mixed with. Lets remember while PPE can limit spread it can't stop it.

So not really hear hear

[Dorset Plodder]

What do you think will happen to those who choose not to van share?

As mentioned earlier on, some DOMs seem to floating the idea of moving those "Resistant Drivers" onto other duties (perhaps pushing an HCT, or starting later)?

I consider myself lucky that my office has a lot of Rurals, with single vans anyway, and we're able to manage the few van shares we do have. Judging by some of the posts, with a lot of van shares, it's a lot more of a problem. You have my sympathy.

Our DOM did mention that his Boss has asked him to supply a list of other Local Van Hire Companies. I believe the lack of Hire Vans for Christmas was put down to Lex actually having no more vans to hire us. Perhaps common sense has managed to survive in Royal Mail?

[xPandabear1992x]

I don't really get how on a forum where the majority of people claim to.

1.Not start early.
2.Take their breaks.
3.Only work their contracted hours or overtime if they want to...

........ can complain about how "it's too hard" to work under the current restrictions. The same applies as at any other time of the year. You have a start time and a finish time etc.

A return to van sharing is not going to mean an end to staggered starts, it will just mean that full-time staff will be paired together on the early shift and part-time staff on the later shifts, it will not mean a reduction in the workload, the parcels will still be through the roof. If anything it will mean more pressure on staff to complete because after all you have no excuse now.

It's pretty obvious that those who choose to van share will be expected to pick up the slack from those that don't, that is going to be so funny to watch.

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