Automated Clocking

[afcdibby]

It'll be easy to fiddle, I used to do it in previous employment when the rest of the shift went home early and I would clock them all out at the right time.

All that will happen will be duty partners (that's if you're all still on van share but that's another story) will take it in turns to come back to the office and clock each other out and sign PDA's off. I could even see some of the bent managers doing it themselves as a way to fiddle the books and hours by doing it for their favourite overtime buddy's to continue ghosting.

Let's face it the managers in this company are fecking useless at the best of times, they are never going to enforce anything fully that is going to show the bully boy senior managers above how fecking useless they are. Never mind staying back in the office each day to check every single OPG has come back and clocked out themselves.

RM as usual are 50 -100 years too late with this.

Not if they use finger print.

[2yearpostie]

It'll be easy to fiddle, I used to do it in previous employment when the rest of the shift went home early and I would clock them all out at the right time.

All that will happen will be duty partners (that's if you're all still on van share but that's another story) will take it in turns to come back to the office and clock each other out and sign PDA's off. I could even see some of the bent managers doing it themselves as a way to fiddle the books and hours by doing it for their favourite overtime buddy's to continue ghosting.

Let's face it the managers in this company are fecking useless at the best of times, they are never going to enforce anything fully that is going to show the bully boy senior managers above how fecking useless they are. Never mind staying back in the office each day to check every single OPG has come back and clocked out themselves.

RM as usual are 50 -100 years too late with this.

Not if they use finger print.

Is using biometrics legal?

[hothothot]

Clocking other postie's in or out will be classed as gross misconduct a sackable offence as it is with other companies. Be warned !

[Sugar]

Clocking other postie's in or out will be classed as gross misconduct a sackable offence as it is with other companies. Be warned !

So's not coming back to sign out which is a breech of H&S and this has been going on for decades because it suits managers to ignore it.

Not if they use finger print.

I hope they do because it'll scare the crap out of all the lazy tw@ts at my old office that have been time wasting indoors and out for years to make their walks look bigger.

Never mind staying back in the office each day to check every single OPG has come back and clocked out themselves.

I have taken a photo of this behaviour in our office (manager signing that every one has returned from their duty even though it's only 9am and he does this every day). I am keeping it should that manager ever haul me up for non-adherence to a procedure

Nice one

[Celgar]

I’ve nothing to hide so I’ve no objection to it. I start on time, finish on time unless I agree to OT.

I do wonder though how it will work - take Saturday for example when everyone is on a flyer. If it’s linked directory to wages/payroll, and you clock out an hour early, will that hour be taken from your pay? Is that what the union (and some of the workforce) are worried about?

Saturday is usually the worst day of the week

I agree that Saturday can often be busier than Wednesdays and also that the duty hours for Saturdays then do not match the work completed. Add in any possible enforcement of prepping D2D in readiness for the following Monday and you have a mess.

[Dorset Plodder]

Like most comments on here I find it hard to see why the CWU has fought so hard NOT to have clocking in and out?

For God's Sake were in the 21st century, what other multi-national company the size of Royal Mail are still relying on signing in, and out, on bits of paper?

I agree using finger print scan would limit any possible room for fraud. It is legal, my wife's company were using it years ago. I personally think it would change the entire work ethic of Royal Mail. Finally there'd be no incentive to come in early (work for FREE) , run around, cutting corners (often risking your job i.e delaying the mail by streaming, binning Households because you can't be arsed to go there, re-posting mail into letterboxes because you can't be arsed to go there the list of little cons is endless.... all designed to save a few minutes here, and there, so you can knock of early)

I agree there could be the threat of Annualised Hours, but the CWU should tie that up in the Agreement to clocking in. Having said that personally I don't think it would effect me that much, (I'm normally booking some overtime most days). If your duty isn't sufficient to keep you out for your contracted hours then you can look forward to have some more added, if your duty is filling up your day then you've got nothing to worry about.

[wookie]

Think RM are in for a fright. Because of PDA actuals, they think they're gonna save a lot of money. They have no idea how much managers cook the books. What with ghosting for their buddy's being paid for with bullying and intimidation of others. Stealing holidays, WTL etc. And most breaks taken at end.
Interesting times ahead.

Cooking the books & Breaks at the end (illegal) I agree with. If they do a 'purge' and end these practices they will get a shock.

[Tman]

Like most comments on here I find it hard to see why the CWU has fought so hard NOT to have clocking in and out?

And having punched the clock in a previous employment it beggars belief to me that anyone would actually call for it to be introduced in RM. The flexibility of signing-on is far more advantageous than clocking-on, and maybe the CWU don't want to be snowed under by the inevitable "I wasn't late, the time clock was fast" calls?
The claim that there would be someone staying behind to clock off all his mates would last until the first six posties were instantly dismissed for fraud.

[rambo1]

I’ve nothing to hide so I’ve no objection to it. I start on time, finish on time unless I agree to OT.

I do wonder though how it will work - take Saturday for example when everyone is on a flyer. If it’s linked directory to wages/payroll, and you clock out an hour early, will that hour be taken from your pay? Is that what the union (and some of the workforce) are worried about?

Any jobs at yoyr office ? It sounds like Saturday's are a breeze

Finish time is 3pm, most are done by 2.15, there’s only I reckon 10% who actually finish at 3. I bet other offices finish even earlier.

Rurals struggle to get back to office on Saturday for the collection mail cut off leaving at 4pm. Sometimes have to leave stuff to get back in time.

[rambo1]

So, if there's only one machine, how do 150 people clock in bang on 7am or whatever. Are you expected to comes in early to stand in a queue in order to get clocked in in time?

[Ren Hoëk]

You lot are mad if you think you want clocking in and out. Too many people in this job far to concerned with what other people are or are not doing and should perhaps focus on themselves!

[POSTMAN]

MRM.COM : Chat with Simon Barker Nat Ops Dir : Jersey-Greenford how clocking in-out (Automated hrs data capture) works : Trials on separate van delivery
Bits in the video.

[Tunahowmad]

I would agree but its out of our hands now. Its already here in some locations and the its coming to every unit. Its not something Royal Mail is going to negotiate

[Sugar]

Like most comments on here I find it hard to see why the CWU has fought so hard NOT to have clocking in and out?

For God's Sake were in the 21st century, what other multi-national company the size of Royal Mail are still relying on signing in, and out, on bits of paper?

I agree using finger print scan would limit any possible room for fraud. It is legal, my wife's company were using it years ago. I personally think it would change the entire work ethic of Royal Mail. Finally there'd be no incentive to come in early (work for FREE) , run around, cutting corners (often risking your job i.e delaying the mail by streaming, binning Households because you can't be arsed to go there, re-posting mail into letterboxes because you can't be arsed to go there the list of little cons is endless.... all designed to save a few minutes here, and there, so you can knock of early)

I agree there could be the threat of Annualised Hours, but the CWU should tie that up in the Agreement to clocking in. Having said that personally I don't think it would effect me that much, (I'm normally booking some overtime most days). If your duty isn't sufficient to keep you out for your contracted hours then you can look forward to have some more added, if your duty is filling up your day then you've got nothing to worry about.

Agree with all that and everything you've listed regarding cutting corners which is exactly why so many DO's are in utter chaos everyday and those on bad duties or do the job properly are constantly targeted and leaned on by incompetent bully boy managers. And I'm speaking from witnessing this and personal experiencing it. It could be a good thing for those doing the job as it should be and on the cr@ppy walks.

And having punched the clock in a previous employment it beggars belief to me that anyone would actually call for it to be introduced in RM. The flexibility of signing-on is far more advantageous than clocking-on, and maybe the CWU don't want to be snowed under by the inevitable "I wasn't late, the time clock was fast" calls?
The claim that there would be someone staying behind to clock off all his mates would last until the first six posties were instantly dismissed for fraud.

Seriously?

Having worked in previous employment where you either punched or swiped a card to start or finish work for close to 15 years I never once heard anyone EVER say the clock was fast or slow, to think or say that would be utterly ludicrous. Only a manager would say the flexibility of signing in by hand was more advantageous even though they know all too well that system had been and still is being abused and fiddled on a daily basis. It's only advantageous for managers.

As for your other point no one would be able to get away with clocking their mates off if managers were still in the office to oversee that people were coming back as they are supposed to do. Do you not think that "mates" are not signing their "mates" out with the current system of signing out?

Millions of people clock in and out what makes RM staff so special that they shouldn't?

It's not rocket science for the company to have a system in place that can link the clocking in machine to the PDA's via a cloud server set up and compare the two to determine if actual hours have been worked.

Like it or not managers and OPG's have brought all this on themselves because for the last decade when the company said "all hours had to be worked" they haven't and have continued to abuse the system for their own agendas.

If they do a 'purge' and end these practices they will get a shock.

Exactly..

If RM had done it before the whole work ethic and culture of the company would be entirely different and the union could have worked to bring in a better fairer system that's not going to be as draconian as I suspect RM will try to bring in.

So, if there's only one machine, how do 150 people clock in bang on 7am or whatever. Are you expected to comes in early to stand in a queue in order to get clocked in in time?

The same as they do in any other company. Either multiple machines, plus rarely do you ever see every single employee stood by a machine at the same time.

Oh and it literally takes a second or two to punch or swipe out as I can attest to having done it in previous employment. We would clear our shop floor in less than a minute as everyone wanted to go home and knew exactly where their card was in the rack and could practically do it blindfolded they'd done it that much.

Way too much overthinking on this, people are just afraid of change or losing a cushy number.

[Zicomurphy]

You lot are mad if you think you want clocking in and out.

Certainly mad if they want it without watertight safeguards in place. I would want a guarantee of no docking of pay if Royal Mail can’t provide me with work to fill my hours. I would also want a guarantee of set start and finish times each day. No sending me home 45 minutes early on a Monday and Tuesday and then telling me I have to work till 5pm on Wednesday.