2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

[Manboat]

Yeh we’re recruiting a few in our place apparently on those times, will do whatever’s required e.g cut offs, parcels, surely if they were gonna force existing staff onto split shifts they wouldn’t need to recruit these would they

Those times look like they are wanting a 'second wave' of staff using the vans from 1pm onwards. That will only work if vans can return after doing their contracted hours by 1pm. Do those offices have staff that finish by 1pm (I'm talking about the time they are paid to, not a time achievable by not taking breaks/not doing full hours etc). It needs to based on contracted hours, not some kind of 'someone will be back 2 hours early and you can use your van (which is kind of what's happening now).

In our office it’s 3pm finish most days for most duties so unless they’re getting a few more vans or gonna have the 1pm new starters doing indoor work or a few hours on foot delivery close to the office Im not sure what they’ll do till the vans are back

[Cucumber]

Yeh we’re recruiting a few in our place apparently on those times, will do whatever’s required e.g cut offs, parcels, surely if they were gonna force existing staff onto split shifts they wouldn’t need to recruit these would they

Those times look like they are wanting a 'second wave' of staff using the vans from 1pm onwards. That will only work if vans can return after doing their contracted hours by 1pm. Do those offices have staff that finish by 1pm (I'm talking about the time they are paid to, not a time achievable by not taking breaks/not doing full hours etc). It needs to based on contracted hours, not some kind of 'someone will be back 2 hours early and you can use your van (which is kind of what's happening now).

In our office it’s 3pm finish most days for most duties so unless they’re getting a few more vans or gonna have the 1pm new starters doing indoor work or a few hours on foot delivery close to the office Im not sure what they’ll do till the vans are back

Or actually have a 1pm finish time for the returning staff (start 2 hours earlier and begin delivery at 8am). Who knows. But to actually now being looking for staff to work these afternoon shifts on a contractual basis is possibly the biggest development in where we are heading.

[wallan]

Yeh we’re recruiting a few in our place apparently on those times, will do whatever’s required e.g cut offs, parcels, surely if they were gonna force existing staff onto split shifts they wouldn’t need to recruit these would they

Those times look like they are wanting a 'second wave' of staff using the vans from 1pm onwards. That will only work if vans can return after doing their contracted hours by 1pm. Do those offices have staff that finish by 1pm (I'm talking about the time they are paid to, not a time achievable by not taking breaks/not doing full hours etc). It needs to based on contracted hours, not some kind of 'someone will be back 2 hours early and you can use your van (which is kind of what's happening now).

In our office it’s 3pm finish most days for most duties so unless they’re getting a few more vans or gonna have the 1pm new starters doing indoor work or a few hours on foot delivery close to the office Im not sure what they’ll do till the vans are back

Or actually have a 1pm finish time for the returning staff (start 2 hours earlier and begin delivery at 8am). Who knows. But to actually now being looking for staff to work these afternoon shifts on a contractual basis is possibly the biggest development in where we are heading.

A 0600 - 1300 Duty , Based on a 35 Hr Week , could possible be viable if all Despatches from the M C arrived at the D O prior to 0600

[SpacePhoenix]

A 0600 - 1300 Duty , Based on a 35 Hr Week , could possible be viable if all Despatches from the M C arrived at the D O prior to 0600

No chance, our final dispatch is at 06:15 and I reckon the furthest DOs away (for us) are about an hours drive

[Cucumber]

A 0600 - 1300 Duty , Based on a 35 Hr Week , could possible be viable if all Despatches from the M C arrived at the D O prior to 0600

No chance, our final dispatch is at 06:15 and I reckon the furthest DOs away (for us) are about an hours drive

I know it's probably those times for a reason, but hypothetically speaking, what's stopping it being earlier. I'm just working back from these new times they are advertising for jobs.

[wallan]

A 0600 - 1300 Duty , Based on a 35 Hr Week , could possible be viable if all Despatches from the M C arrived at the D O prior to 0600

No chance, our final dispatch is at 06:15 and I reckon the furthest DOs away (for us) are about an hours drive

In which case 1300 - 1800 Duties would not seem to be a viable option

[Cucumber]

A 0600 - 1300 Duty , Based on a 35 Hr Week , could possible be viable if all Despatches from the M C arrived at the D O prior to 0600

No chance, our final dispatch is at 06:15 and I reckon the furthest DOs away (for us) are about an hours drive

In which case 1300 - 1800 Duties would not seem to be a viable option

Why advertise them then? Do the offices that are advertising them actually have contracted finishing times of 1:30pm at the latest?

[Manboat]

A 0600 - 1300 Duty , Based on a 35 Hr Week , could possible be viable if all Despatches from the M C arrived at the D O prior to 0600

No chance, our final dispatch is at 06:15 and I reckon the furthest DOs away (for us) are about an hours drive

In which case 1300 - 1800 Duties would not seem to be a viable option

Why advertise them then? Do the offices that are advertising them actually have contracted finishing times of 1:30pm at the latest?

Not ours but unsure of any others, I suppose we’ll all know soon enough what the bigger picture is

[Cucumber]

A 0600 - 1300 Duty , Based on a 35 Hr Week , could possible be viable if all Despatches from the M C arrived at the D O prior to 0600

No chance, our final dispatch is at 06:15 and I reckon the furthest DOs away (for us) are about an hours drive

In which case 1300 - 1800 Duties would not seem to be a viable option

Why advertise them then? Do the offices that are advertising them actually have contracted finishing times of 1:30pm at the latest?

Not ours but unsure of any others, I suppose we’ll all know soon enough what the bigger picture is

Hopefully the union is already demanding answers.

[Grumpyoldmailman]

I think they are just covering several bases with the new jobs. Nobody wants the afternoons at ours anymore so any new starters are virtually guaranteed to be on them if they manage to get a job, they all seem to be fixed term until 27/6/21 as well so something must be happening around that time.

[Woody Guthrie]

You can make non-drivers redundant though,

You can't really though because you would have to show that the job requires driving and these staff couldn't be relocated elsewhere and it won't.

Why?

Look at what we know about the future model of a delivery.

No large parcels or tracked (they're all on the LAT delivery) and declining letters, does that really look like a model where you would put everyone in a van? A van that will be half empty if that and then have the afternoon parcel deliveries waiting around for all these vans to come back?

Removing all large parcels and tracked actually makes non driving duties more likely and more sustainable leaving the bulk of the vans for the afternoon deliveries.

[SpacePhoenix]

You can make non-drivers redundant though,

You can't really though because you would have to show that the job requires driving and these staff couldn't be relocated elsewhere and it won't.

Why?

Look at what we know about the future model of a delivery.

No large parcels or tracked (they're all on the LAT delivery) and declining letters, does that really look like a model where you would put everyone in a van? A van that will be half empty if that and then have the afternoon parcel deliveries waiting around for all these vans to come back?

Removing all large parcels and tracked actually makes non driving duties more likely and more sustainable leaving the bulk of the vans for the afternoon deliveries.

If the USO does get reduced, depending on in what way will every delivery go out every day? If half of delivery staff can drive, they could be kept on doing deliveries whilst the rest might get redeployed elsewhere

[Ren Hoëk]

You can make non-drivers redundant though,

You can't really though because you would have to show that the job requires driving and these staff couldn't be relocated elsewhere and it won't.

Why?

Look at what we know about the future model of a delivery.

No large parcels or tracked (they're all on the LAT delivery) and declining letters, does that really look like a model where you would put everyone in a van? A van that will be half empty if that and then have the afternoon parcel deliveries waiting around for all these vans to come back?

Removing all large parcels and tracked actually makes non driving duties more likely and more sustainable leaving the bulk of the vans for the afternoon deliveries.

Sounds like wishful thinking. That non driver is still reliant on a driver if van share even continues. They will be collapsing walks wholesale to the point you will have a seriously reduced letters staff covering a much larger area and needing to drive. They plan on having it that you will not be going to households with only a single letter. DSA mail anyway. People will then be shifted to become packet drivers where possible and where not then bye bye. It will be very easy to show that this job requires driving. Redundancies if not voluntary should be based on skill level and usefulness to the business. Sorry to say it but non drivers are less useful that drivers.

[Woody Guthrie]

Sounds like wishful thinking.

It's common sense that comes from years of experience.
Delivery of mainly letters from a van is very inefficient, it always has been and that's why it was always limited to rurals and businesses. The only justification for moving to van share was the increase in large parcels and tracked through the business which made walking deliveries impractical.

Then there's the cost of supplying and maintaining all of those extra vans, a van for every delivery in the morning and then all those same vans scooting around all afternoon?, now that's wishful thinking not to mention the huge increase in the ecological footprint of the business.

How much collapsing of duties is practical under a 37 hr week? The business hopes for 1 in 6 which personally I think is optimistic but even with those numbers 60 p&l duties using 30 vans would only reduce to 50 duties but would require an extra 20 vans.

When you see the guys delivering leaflets do they all have their own van? They will no doubt be modelling various scenarios for delivering mainly letters and small packets from starburst to using the boxes again but these models will be based on limiting overheads and making the system as effective and efficient as possible and giving everyone a van they can't even half fill and then having them driving around in circles doesn't tick any of those boxes.

[Cucumber]

How would people get out to their delivery point if they don't drive? Easier in built up areas, but not so much in semi rural locations.