Can you imagine how little we would achieve if we constantly ignored the little things because there's always something more important to worry about.I don't get the amount of protests on here. We are going to have more important things to worry about....
The club gets a certain amount of medals, They are given out on the basis of minutes played if there are not enough medals.clashcityrocker wrote:If you are in a football squad and that team goes on to win something, despite the fact that you might only have played a handful of games in that competition, or you might only have come on as a substitute you still get a medal. (Not a pro rata medal) because you were a part of the team.
Murdoch wrote: Not sure I get your point regarding "So why should there be a minimum cap", there isn't a minimum cap, you can literally get none of the bonus if you haven't worked during this time. Did you mean, any amount taken off for absences should be capped? But the "£40 less" amount aggrieved you...so that cap would have to be such a tiny amount to appease you. So, I have no idea what you mean, you'll need to be more clear.
As I've said in my previous post. Anybody that had to self-isolate for 7-14 days, got full pay and an absence that doesn't count towards a stage. That seems pretty fair to me.
I really don't get your final point, that because people won't get the full bonus for being off, they'll go off sick in protest at some point in the future to "get it back". Why on earth do you think the company wants to tie bonus payments to attendance, it's because it thinks that some people take the bloody piss. And you're not helping saying stupid s**t like that.
Even though you bolded "all", we didn't all work during this time. I know first hand many people contracted with Royal Mail that haven't worked at all during the lockdown, for a variety of different reasons, some of them unrelated to covid-19. I really struggle to make a case for why they should get the bonus.
Its far easier to pay them pro-rata. And it really is quite that simple. It might not seem fair to you but those who worked additional hours could have easily said NO but they knew what they were in for and they got paid overtime for working over and above their contractual hours. Hopefully, thats cleared that one up. Just for clarity, "pro-rata" just means in proportion. It doesn't mean according to your contractual hours.postslippete wrote: From your previous posts I know that we would all like to live in this parallel universe that you envisage. But back in the real world Royal Mail are not going to analyse what 160,000 odd postal workers have worked in terms of their hours during this crisis. For example, a part-timer might have worked 30 hours in April, but then 38 hours for the first 2 weeks in May and then their contractual hours of 24 hours for the rest of May. How on earth are Royal Mail going to decide what percentage of the £200 bonus to pay them??
The real debate then is about awarding a bonus for a very specific time of the pandemic. The pandemic isn't even over yet and its hit certain parts of the country (like in Scotland) a lot later than it did in London. I don't doubt that many staff have had to take time off work because their family members died due to the coronavirus. But never mind you won't get anything extra from Royal Mail because at least you got paid for having the week off. And then you've got staff who have haven't been on sick in 10 years but had a week off due to following the government guidelines because they were displaying genuine covid19 symptoms and they didn't want to infect their colleagues. In your book though they were just taking the p**s. Why should it be fair then for someone who had most of last year off (completely unrelated to covid19) bust just happened to work those specific weeks. How is that fair that they should get a bonus??
I don't even know why this is up for debate!!
Yeah, that's a really poor example. Many players have lost out of league medals, because they didn't play enough games, despite being part of the squad and playing league games.clashcityrocker wrote:If you are in a football squad and that team goes on to win something, despite the fact that you might only have played a handful of games in that competition, or you might only have come on as a substitute you still get a medal. (Not a pro rata medal) because you were a part of the team.
Murdoch wrote:
Just for clarity, "pro-rata" just means in proportion. It doesn't mean according to your contractual hours.
And really, it's incredibly simple mathematics to get an average number of hours worked over a said period of weeks. I mean come on. You add up the total hours, and divide by the number of weeks.
And for your last point... because this bonus is specifically for people who have worked during this time... as has been made clear.
I never said they would. I was pointing out to you that an average amount of hours worked, Isn't the difficult calculation to make which you seem to think it is. All Accounting and Payroll software does this with minimal effort. Do you think somebody is sitting in payroll, desperately trying to look through payslips, with a calculator, frazzled hair, frantically trying figure out what to pay everybody?postslippete wrote: The business isn't going to bother looking through 160,000 staff wages over the period and and working out what hours they have worked over those specific weeks just so they can decide what % of a measly £200 bonus to give us!!
You say that as if the two things are mutually exclusive. I've expressed my disdain at how holiday pay is handled within Royal Mail, many, many times, towards every avenue open to myself.postslippete wrote: You might be far better off e-mailing Royal Mail payroll than putting your ideas on here. Please let me know what response you get
If they lose the argument over part-time holiday pay that's exactly what they'll have to do on a weekly basis.The business isn't going to bother looking through 160,000 staff wages over the period and and working out what hours they have worked over those specific weeks
Murdoch, the 12 week average has increased as outlined below. Also re average holiday pay claims in England & Wales "A date of 5th October 2020 has then been set for a further preliminary hearing ...."Murdoch wrote:I never said they would. I was pointing out to you that an average amount of hours worked, Isn't the difficult calculation to make which you seem to think it is. All Accounting and Payroll software does this with minimal effort. Do you think somebody is sitting in payroll, desperately trying to look through payslips, with a calculator, frazzled hair, frantically trying figure out what to pay everybody?postslippete wrote: The business isn't going to bother looking through 160,000 staff wages over the period and and working out what hours they have worked over those specific weeks just so they can decide what % of a measly £200 bonus to give us!!
Also, this is far more related to the discussion I was having with Woody, about average hours with regards to holiday pay, than a one off 200 quid bonus. But nonetheless, it's all part of the same problem.
But sure, if Royal Mail have convinced you that calculating average hours worked, is an incredible hardship. I can see why the union can't make any headway getting holiday paid as an average of actual hours worked (over the last 12 weeks, as per government guidelines).
You say that as if the two things are mutually exclusive. I've expressed my disdain at how holiday pay is handled within Royal Mail, many, many times, towards every avenue open to myself.postslippete wrote: You might be far better off e-mailing Royal Mail payroll than putting your ideas on here. Please let me know what response you get
On a personal level, I also avoid doing overtime wherever possible. Other than exceptional circumstances.
yes. you get the bonus, but it will be less because of the 7 days off. more for 14 days. no bonus if you were off during the ''qualifying'' period though.Chelseablue wrote:So if you took a week off to isolate ( instead of staying in work and possibly infecting others) you wont get any bonus? Youve put youreself at risk all the other weeks and the 1 week where you normally wdnt have gone off sick has cost you? The bonus is pennies but its the principal , well see,,
Well for one, I've used accountancy software. Secondly, it would take me 10 seconds to create something similar in excel. 3rd, my sister works in payroll for a large company that has employees with zero hour contracts, and they get paid an average of their hour worked when on holiday. And 4th, I know Royal Mail do keep "average hours worked" on their system, I've seen mine in black and white.postslippete wrote: How do you know it's that simple Murdoch. When did you last work in payroll and use Sage accounting or whatever?? Whilst I agree with your ideas in principle I'm acutely aware of how Royal Mail prefer to operate. As long as it is legal.
I don't agree it should be that black and white either, I was arguing for those people that have had to self isolate for some of the specified time, to get the bonus on a "pro-rata" basis. This is also why I was trying to explain that "Pro-rata" simply means in proportion. If you work 7 out of 8 of the qualifying weeks, you should get 7/8th of the bonus. I know maths is hard, but trust me, computers make that s**t trivial to implement. You should not lose all the bonus because you had to self-isolate.postslippete wrote: I've read it again. It states they see the bonus as a non-contractual, one-off bonus to those who simply worked during that specific period. I take that to mean that if you had time off to isolate you probably won't get the bonus.