Morning postal deliveries are killed off by stealth

[jemima]

From thisislondon.co.uk

http://tinyurl.com/yurgah

"Morning postal deliveries are killed off by stealth...now we'll have to wait until after midday
28.11.07

Postal watchdogs have quietly given the go-ahead to Royal Mail's plans to scrap traditional morning postal deliveries.

Despite fierce opposition to the changes, industry regulator Postcomm failed to make a public statement about its decision to approve the scheme.

The only notification of its stance is a document buried on the watchdog's website.

Under the new regime, which Royal Mail has already started to phase in, 60 per cent of the daily post will be delivered after midday.

Traditionally, post deliveries to homes and businesses started as early as 7.30am, with 94.4 per cent of all mail reaching its destination by midday.

However, the new arrangements, revealed by the Daily Mail in August, will mean that even the first delivery will not start until 10.30am.

Royal Mail has already moved back daily delivery times by up to one hour ahead of Christmas, while the roll-out of the full proposals is expected to take place in the new year.

The organisation claims the changes are necessary because of a new EU green directive which limits the speed of the mail lorries that criss-cross the country during the night to cut fuel emissions. However, the shift is part of a wider costcutting exercise that will slash the workforce by 40,000 and reduce overtime payments.

The watchdog's document reads: "Whilst Postcomm is concerned with the impact later delivery times can have on some postal users, there is not enough evidence to justify a regulatory intervention at the present time."

The decision to abandon traditional delivery times has been criticised by business leaders and consumer body Postwatch, who believe it heralds reduced standards of service.

A Postwatch spokesman said: "This is one of the only industries where things seem to be going backwards.

"We feel that customers are paying more for less of a service. It is disappointing.

"Our own research shows the public value daily deliveries before 12.

"We need to have a healthy and thriving Royal Mail, but not at the expense of poorer services."

The group suggested Royal Mail's changes will "ultimately leave customers with a diminished service".

It added: "It is extremely unclear how customers would benefit from this initiative; it would seem that it only benefits Royal Mail."

Natalie Evans, head of policy at the British Chambers of Commerce, also condemned the move, saying: "Business needs and deserves a reliable postal service. Sadly it is not getting one.

"Businesses have made it very clear that they want post delivered at the start of every working day and collected at the end of every working day."

A Royal Mail spokesman said that the organisation had tried to move collection times from some post boxes to later in the day in order to improve services.

Postal workers have overwhelmingly backed a deal on pay and conditions, ending their long-running dispute.

The Communication Workers Union said its members voted by 64 per cent in favour of an agreement and will now receive a pay rise of 6.9 per cent over two years.

Postal workers across the country were involved in a number of strikes this summer, which crippled deliveries."

[blackadder]

looks like royal mail planning a 9 - 5 day as we speak. how the f have we come to this, this aint the job i signed up to oh so many years ago. the public want a early post and yet again the public suffer cos it costs to much. if it aint us its your bins be emptied once a fortnite or your local hospital shutting down or oh dear madam thers a man in your house stealing your valubles a policeman be round in 4 hours or so what u pay your car tax now you gotta pay to use the roads, or lowlifes finking they sick cos they cant be arsed to do a days work. i could go on and on, the country has fallen apart

[mrlovepantsuk]

nice of postwatch and others to catch up. a couple of weeks ago didnt they say we were ruining the job by striking now they they are saying we are killing the job by starting later. they want to make their mind up.

[F0zziebear]

By starting later RM will be able to employ people from a wider employment market. The realities of a competitive market

[TrueBlueTerrier]

By starting later RM will be able to employ people from a wider employment market. The realities of a competitive market

But surely it would be better to employ people who want to make Royal Mail work properly, as in those willing to start at unsociable hours it shows commitment.

When, and I think they will, they move to a more casual work force they are going to have many more problems with sickness, absences and retention. I am pretty sure that the though the per head cost of employees will go down, the paper work and support (and therefore costs) of this causal work force will expand exponentially. They will in the long run have to employ more back room staff and more bureaucrats just to keep on top of it. We will end up like the NHS with apparently a public perception of more managers than Nursers or in our case Posties.

[BELIAL]

By starting later RM will be able to employ people from a wider employment market. The realities of a competitive market

But surely it would be better to employ people who want to make Royal Mail work properly, as in those willing to start at unsociable hours it shows commitment.

When, and I think they will, they move to a more casual work force they are going to have many more problems with sickness, absences and retention. I am pretty sure that the though the per head cost of employees will go down, the paper work and support (and therefore costs) of this causal work force will expand exponentially. They will in the long run have to employ more back room staff and more bureaucrats just to keep on top of it. We will end up like the NHS with apparently a public perception of more managers than Nursers or in our case Posties.

Forget the logic this is business speak : casual workforce employment rights =minimal ,sickness =forget it ,holidays hmmm , provide a decent service,forget it. Try to get Crozier to say the words "public service"
uh uh wont happen. No1 priority private profit, profit ,profit everything else is irrelevant

[norbet colon]

By starting later RM will be able to employ people from a wider employment market. The realities of a competitive market

But surely it would be better to employ people who want to make Royal Mail work properly, as in those willing to start at unsociable hours it shows commitment.

When, and I think they will, they move to a more casual work force they are going to have many more problems with sickness, absences and retention. I am pretty sure that the though the per head cost of employees will go down, the paper work and support (and therefore costs) of this causal work force will expand exponentially. They will in the long run have to employ more back room staff and more bureaucrats just to keep on top of it. We will end up like the NHS with apparently a public perception of more managers than Nursers or in our case Posties.

Forget the logic this is business speak : casual workforce employment rights =minimal ,sickness =forget it ,holidays hmmm , provide a decent service,forget it. Try to get Crozier to say the words "public service"
uh uh wont happen. No1 priority private profit, profit ,profit everything else is irrelevant

also dilute this heavily unionised industry, where there's a will there's a way . Seen it all happen before , we'd too many old fashioned ideas about service and they wanted market thrust , they certainly wanted thrusting with some of the half baked harebrained ideas . The other big idea that there was no place for you if wern't committed , plenty of the idiots in charge certainly should have been !

What makes me laugh is after Royal Failure got shafted on C4 Dispatches , RM wanted to reduce it's casuals but I summise they're going for the Dutch "idea " with a weak union & a casualised mostly part time workforce .

The other arguement against the casual army is the adminstrative costs against paying uniform, however this the sort of organisation that would make cardboard submarines and has a management structure that works for the benefit of it's managers instead of actually running things

[doveston]

some political partys could use this and say'we'll take the post time back' and win quite a few votes..

[F0zziebear]

On this thread I am not attempting to put across my own opinions about the future, but rather express the direction as seen by senior figures throughout the industry.

Of course senior mgmt want a weaker union, but they also want to be able to employ people to do part-time roles, as used in Holland and other places. The assumption is that with walk sorting you can split the indoor and outdoor roles. If mail ONLY has to be delivered at some stage during the day then delivering it at more 'sociable' hours enables RM and others to employ from a broader market.

Does this provide a decent service? Well yes if you change the goalposts. There is nothing in the postcomm licence that says 1st class mail has be delivered in the morning. We are used to it being on our doorstep before going to work, but that service will become a premium service that you may have to pay extra for.

The other change has been the move from next day 1st class delivery to at a mimimum 1.5 days or more likely 2 days. Research suggests that for gauranteed next day delivery people will pay significantly more whereas 2day delivery is likely to be the norm. This will dramatically reduce overhead costs.

Unfortunately unless you boys go on all-out strike now your RoyalMaill will change beyond recognition in terms of products, personnel and just about anything else you can think of.

Is this right? I have sympathies on both sides and as I'm not in the industry and do not send mail for the next day I am not so fussed

F0zz

[norbet colon]

On this thread I am not attempting to put across my own opinions about the future, but rather express the direction as seen by senior figures throughout the industry.

Of course senior mgmt want a weaker union, but they also want to be able to employ people to do part-time roles, as used in Holland and other places. The assumption is that with walk sorting you can split the indoor and outdoor roles. If mail ONLY has to be delivered at some stage during the day then delivering it at more 'sociable' hours enables RM and others to employ from a broader market.

Does this provide a decent service? Well yes if you change the goalposts. There is nothing in the postcomm licence that says 1st class mail has be delivered in the morning. We are used to it being on our doorstep before going to work, but that service will become a premium service that you may have to pay extra for.

The other change has been the move from next day 1st class delivery to at a mimimum 1.5 days or more likely 2 days. Research suggests that for gauranteed next day delivery people will pay significantly more whereas 2day delivery is likely to be the norm. This will dramatically reduce overhead costs.

Unfortunately unless you boys go on all-out strike now your RoyalMaill will change beyond recognition in terms of products, personnel and just about anything else you can think of.

Is this right? I have sympathies on both sides and as I'm not in the industry and do not send mail for the next day I am not so fussed

F0zz

I've had that suspicion about RM wanting to charge for guaranteed next day and there's quite a few people that haven't fallen for the 56 m.p.h EEC red herring. However it's what the "competition" are doing anyway.

I can only suspect that L&C are trying to lower people's expectations to a point when they realise resistance is futile by running the service down.

Also that the "independent" Hellmail propaganda machine has made many sneery comments about posties and their 5o's service ethos and then there's the CWU is turning this campaign into a god forbid a political one and the macho tipping point , we've had the miners , Longridge now this .It was patently obvious that Crozier was spoiling for a strike so he could push things through sooner rather than later. It would appear that Hayes & Ward have no stomach for a fight .

The laughable irony or paradox about RM is that they want a enterprise union like the AEUU or the TGWU with the Japanese firms or the Car Industry but they've still got the same confrontational and hostile blame culture attitude towards the CWU instead of HRM and partnership . If anyone is stuck in the 70's or at best the 80's it's Royal Mail.

No imagination, vision or direction and weak crisis management especially with dealings with Postcon.

I'd have more respect for RM if they came straight out with things than all this vague , ambigious , wooly, dishonest & underhand management speak . Poor communication and no joined up thinking.

[vigilante]

On this thread I am not attempting to put across my own opinions about the future, but rather express the direction as seen by senior figures throughout the industry.

Of course senior mgmt want a weaker union, but they also want to be able to employ people to do part-time roles, as used in Holland and other places. The assumption is that with walk sorting you can split the indoor and outdoor roles. If mail ONLY has to be delivered at some stage during the day then delivering it at more 'sociable' hours enables RM and others to employ from a broader market.

Does this provide a decent service? Well yes if you change the goalposts. There is nothing in the postcomm licence that says 1st class mail has be delivered in the morning. We are used to it being on our doorstep before going to work, but that service will become a premium service that you may have to pay extra for.

The other change has been the move from next day 1st class delivery to at a mimimum 1.5 days or more likely 2 days. Research suggests that for gauranteed next day delivery people will pay significantly more whereas 2day delivery is likely to be the norm. This will dramatically reduce overhead costs.

Unfortunately unless you boys go on all-out strike now your RoyalMaill will change beyond recognition in terms of products, personnel and just about anything else you can think of.

Is this right? I have sympathies on both sides and as I'm not in the industry and do not send mail for the next day I am not so fussed

F0zz

I've had that suspicion about RM wanting to charge for guaranteed next day and there's quite a few people that haven't fallen for the 56 m.p.h EEC red herring. However it's what the "competition" are doing anyway.

I can only suspect that L&C are trying to lower people's expectations to a point when they realise resistance is futile by running the service down.

Also that the "independent" Hellmail propaganda machine has made many sneery comments about posties and their 5o's service ethos and then there's the CWU is turning this campaign into a god forbid a political one and the macho tipping point , we've had the miners , Longridge now this .It was patently obvious that Crozier was spoiling for a strike so he could push things through sooner rather than later. It would appear that Hayes & Ward have no stomach for a fight .

The laughable irony or paradox about RM is that they want a enterprise union like the AEUU or the TGWU with the Japanese firms or the Car Industry but they've still got the same confrontational and hostile blame culture attitude towards the CWU instead of HRM and partnership . If anyone is stuck in the 70's or at best the 80's it's Royal Mail.

No imagination, vision or direction and weak crisis management especially with dealings with Postcon.

I'd have more respect for RM if they came straight out with things than all this vague , ambigious , wooly, dishonest & underhand management speak . Poor communication and no joined up thinking.

Two good posts-----------this is reality.

[borders]

looks like royal mail planning a 9 - 5 day as we speak. how the f have we come to this, this aint the job i signed up to oh so many years ago. the public want a early post and yet again the public suffer cos it costs to much. if it aint us its your bins be emptied once a fortnite or your local hospital shutting down or oh dear madam thers a man in your house stealing your valubles a policeman be round in 4 hours or so what u pay your car tax now you gotta pay to use the roads, or lowlifes finking they sick cos they cant be arsed to do a days work. i could go on and on, the country has fallen apart

its all alright, the people at the top are trousering it , they cant fill their pockets quick enough, who gives a toss about us no- marks , be grateful for your 250 quid its far too much anyway , now be off with you and get on with it and stop your whinging.