DRAW THE LINE AND MOVE ON

[L Tommo]

The vote has now been taken and whatever any of us think a YES vote of 64% has been cast.

There is no point going over old ground and we MUST now move on together! (WITH SUCH A CHANGE IN OUR WORKING PRACTISES AND DEVIDE IN THE VOTE AND FEELINGS SO HIGH?????)

VOTE WAS RIGGED
The vote wasn't rigged. ALL unions use POLARIS and the company must follow strict laws! We may not like the result but it is not rigged (FAIR CALL)

LETS RESIGN FROM CWU
Yeah really clever. Now is the time more than ever that we need to stick together. There will be DOMs, Line managers etc pushing the barriers in the coming weeks in certain offices. THIS HAPPENS NOW!! Just look how some offices have big SA xmas agreements whilst other are left with nothing! Resigning from the CWU will achieve nothing. This time of year we have the branch, Area and National elections. If you have a real beef then step forward yourself or vote for those who you think best protect your interests! (NOW THE THREAT OF CHUCKING OUR CARDS IN ENMASS IS A ISSUE TO CROSS FOR THE NO VOTERS, WE ARE DEVIDED ANYWAY BY THIS VOTE, WHAT IS IN IT FOR THE NO VOTERS even in a democracy? SHAFTED THATS ALL)

40,00 DIDN'T VOTE
Whlst i'll never understand this it happens in every single national union vote. The nurses pay deal had a 22% turnout!! It drives me crazy but we won't change it! (PEOPLE WHO DONT AND DIDNT VOTE, FECK RIGHT OFF FROM THE UNION YOU BACK SLIDING PARASITICAL LEACHES WITH NO BACK BONE)

REPS RESIGNING
Like the Way Forward this is a major agreement. Some reps will go and that is their choice. All i will say is this will simply put your office in a weaker than ever position ( EVERYONES OWN CHOICE)

EVERYTHING HAS TO BE DONE LOCALLY
This is simply not true. In my branch the Area Reps have already drawn up mock flexibility agreements and told local reps not to move outside of the perimators set out. This could be done as a Area wide plan with no problems at all. (NOW THIS IS THE TIME TO FIGHT WITH THE BEST YOU HAVE IN EACH UNIT... BUT WITH SUCH A MIXED LEVEL OF VOTE FROM TOWN TO TOWN OFFICE TO OFFICE THERE WILL BE BIG PROBLEMS AHEAD..)



Im trying hard to be democratic here and im failing to be honest... YES IM GUTTTED YES IM PISSED OFF, YES IM SICK OF THE SWING FROM 77% TO A YES VOTE OF 64% YES YES YES.... FECK THE WORD YES....

This previous piece is with merits and points i can only agree with but the heart of me wants to say BOLLOX N NO TO ALL OF IT...

Call me a sore loser if you will... I just cant take the agreement pushed at us from billy bollox n dozey dave....

These two i exspected it from .... :lfo :cfo But didnt need the blunder brothers from CWU HQ to stick the knife in and twist it....

climb the ladder boys while we do your donkey work n vote for you...

THE CWU IS FINISHED
The CWU is only as strong as its members. This vote will not finish this union. We even recovered after a no vote in 2003. If anything the strength of the national strike action will mean that we have grown stronger. (??????????????????????????????)

UNITED
Please can we stop sniping at each other? This achieves nothing. Royal Mail scan this site and will be rubbing their hands at such a split workforce! Some voted yes , some voted no. SO what this is everyones democratic choice! (FAIR CALL)

Now is the time to draw a line in the sand and move forward. We must focus on the key issues. The pensions consultation (make sure you're branch is involving you) and the flexibility plans (reps should put motions to committes calling for area wide agreements - in my opinion) (FAIR CALL)

I hope we can all bring the attacks on each other to a close and focus on the uniting as we move forward

( VERY UNFECKING HAPPY)

OUT :cfo :lfo

[dvbuk55]

The PEC elections are early next year. ALL members will then have the chance to make any changes they like!

YOU could even stand!!!

I cannot do anything to restore your faith in the national union.

The NO campaign was doomed from the start. No organisation, no key backers, no real information, no plan B and no idea what to do if a NO vote was achieved!

If the campaign was ran in a better fashion there was a real chance of a no vote! The comms from HQ were ok but nothing to write home about.

It just shows the key people asking for a NO vote did not have the wherewithal to obtain the result they wanted!

They certainly didn't have the organisation but more importantly ANY MONEY - how much has it cost us as union members for the pamphlets and podcast to achieve a YES vote? It is a disgraceful state of affairs that money contributed by us should be used to advocate what IS a bad deal - everyone knows it even those who say "Don't worry everything will be OK".

As for the CWU recovering from the 2003 fiasco - no - they left their cojones on the fence.

[L Tommo]

GOOD CALL DVBUK MATE

[IWW Fellow Worker]

They certainly didn't have the organisation but more importantly ANY MONEY - how much has it cost us as union members for the pamphlets and podcast to achieve a YES vote? It is a disgraceful state of affairs that money contributed by us should be used to advocate what IS a bad deal - everyone knows it even those who say "Don't worry everything will be OK".

Bloody hell! Reading that has got me thinking seriously about leaving the CWU for the first time since I joined in 1980. Thank goodness I'm a member of two unions because I wouldn't want to be a low-down, low-life scab bastard!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

its in the deal in black and white

Show me where, I believe it says about reverting to previous Saturday times if it's operationally possible (NI AGM has said that there will be no reversion on Saturday times)

4. SECTION 2 – DELIVERING CHANGE AND FLEXIBILITY

Change is to be shaped and implemented in four phases.

Phase 1 – Immediate Operational Changes

Start times and Network 2007

Royal Mail has introduced later start times for operational reasons. CWU note these changes. Given that there has been little or no opportunity for discussion about these changes at local level, both Royal Mail and CWU are committed to resolve any outstanding issues. Royal Mail and CWU will urgently review these arrangements at local level in line with the following:

*

Henceforth the normal start times will be between 0600 and 0630

*

Changes in start times should take account, as far as possible, of individual circumstances

*

Saturday start times and the overall length of attendance on a Saturday will remain as before unless agreed otherwise locally

*

Saturday attendances will be reviewed in the Joint Working Group (2) as part of the introduction of a new delivery model

Network 2007 will be implemented on 22 October in line with the deployment framework set out in section 6.

[DGP1]

Henceforth the normal start times will be between 0600 and 0630

Great, our start time is now 0700, should we get it reverted back (our DUM says NO)

Saturday start times and the overall length of attendance on a Saturday will remain as before unless agreed otherwise locally

1st lorry arrives at 0530 second at 0645 (no change on a Saturday) so our DUM says NO to early Saturday start time (and our AGM&DSM agree with him).

[dvbuk55]

Henceforth the normal start times will be between 0600 and 0630

Great, our start time is now 0700, should we get it reverted back (our DUM says NO)

Saturday start times and the overall length of attendance on a Saturday will remain as before unless agreed otherwise locally

1st lorry arrives at 0530 second at 0645 (no change on a Saturday) so our DUM says NO to early Saturday start time (and our AGM&DSM agree with him).

This was always going to be a thorn because if the mail could be here on Saturday it could be here every day, BUT, what begs the question is why aren't the MCs and network reverting back to the early starts - presumably the agreement covers all - or am I wrong?

[stephen500]

for once i totally disagree with lovejoys comments
how can we get together and defend the union when they have come at us with a deal as rubbish as this one? the majority of branches asked us to reject it and people still harp on as if its a good deal
people leaving the union wont weaken it ... the cwu has done that all by its self
most of the deal was down to local agreement... thats the cwus way of saying to us to just get on with it
stronger offices win weaker ones lose

r.i.p cwu

As you know i voted no and i really think that those who voted yes did so for a variety of reasons.
1) They lost faith in a union that had thrown in the towel from a postiton of strength
2) They saw the £175 and the backpay from oct.
3) They beleived the union in that pensions, d2d , monthly pay etc have either been detached or sent to working groups.

However:
What matters is the motive of the leadership. If they genuinely felt the game was up then i have some sympathy.

But it still is a bad agreement:

1) loss of about £400 back pay Apr to Oct. This is happening more regulary
2) seperating d2d means that when Rm come back with a proposal then the delivery postman will be on their own..a weaker position.
3) Local flexibility will mean less pay...for deliveries loss of o/t for covering S/l A/l
4) Postman who only recently agreed once over the ground with the carrot of finishing early have been well and truely done over.
5) The swings and roundabouts of 30 mins will be only one way, try asking to vary your own hours.
6)innovative duty structures will mean loss of earnings.
7) most will never see the 1.5%, no pay rise till 2010.
8) simplified pay....will mean loss of some allowances such as phg money, now remember delivery postman that is protected by grandfather rights!
9) workgroups to look at attendence..... I am guessing here but i would suggest less time to get to sick stages and easier to sack you.
performance management???
annualised hours?
10) Pensions....I am sure that Rm will take on board everyone's view and then do just as it likes...can't wait to see the reaction of the toothless trustees!

Overall a rubbish agreement, i would rather have had no pay rise.

However i won't leave the union.

Remember the aim of the employer is to divide and conquer.

[stephen500]

our dom has said he cant revert back to old start times on a saturday
just remember its part of the deal
tell him to fuc k off like we did
as its the yes vote we are going back on time on a saturday weather he likes it or not
its in the deal in black and white

It clearly states in the agreement that sat times will revert unless there is local agreement, so don't agree to change them locally!

[anderson844]

Lovejoy, I cannot agree with you on this subject and am with Axeman and Prowler on this.
The Union has totally fudged the issue by delegating several important issues to local offices. In our office we have a very aggressive DOM who does not seem to know the meaning of "compromise" therefore he is unlikely to negotiate with us but will have it his way or not at all. I feel that his hand has only been strengthened by the Union's poor performance over this issue.

[dvbuk55]

Lovejoy, I cannot agree with you on this subject and am with Axeman and Prowler on this.
The Union has totally fudged the issue by delegating several important issues to local offices. In our office we have a very aggressive DOM who does not seem to know the meaning of "compromise" therefore he is unlikely to negotiate with us but will have it his way or not at all. I feel that his hand has only been strengthened by the Union's poor performance over this issue.

Well said! This has long been a worry to some of us that where there is no representation or weak representation/hard line manager then there is really going to be no negotiation only megalomania. It is, of course, now a rhetorical question, the deal is in and we will get what we get, office by office, area by area and in some cases individual by individual. Don't forget the 1.5%, which is touted as part of the 6.9% pay rise, is only going to be granted office by office on take up and implementation of ALL changes - and guess what? - there are going to be more strings than on a tennis racquet. I bet I have another arsehole before I see a penny of that - and do you know what? - I don't give a shite whether I get it or not. Yes the leadership really negotiated a good deal didn't they - so good in fact that 64% of voters went for it. There must be a shortage of rose tinted glasses where I live.

[pinstripe]

Lovejoy, I cannot agree with you on this subject and am with Axeman and Prowler on this.
The Union has totally fudged the issue by delegating several important issues to local offices. In our office we have a very aggressive DOM who does not seem to know the meaning of "compromise" therefore he is unlikely to negotiate with us but will have it his way or not at all. I feel that his hand has only been strengthened by the Union's poor performance over this issue.

Well said! This has long been a worry to some of us that where there is no representation or weak representation/hard line manager then there is really going to be no negotiation only megalomania. It is, of course, now a rhetorical question, the deal is in and we will get what we get, office by office, area by area and in some cases individual by individual. Don't forget the 1.5%, which is touted as part of the 6.9% pay rise, is only going to be granted office by office on take up and implementation of ALL changes - and guess what? - there are going to be more strings than on a tennis racquet. I bet I have another arsehole before I see a penny of that - and do you know what? - I don't give a shite whether I get it or not. Yes the leadership really negotiated a good deal didn't they - so good in fact that 64% of voters went for it. There must be a shortage of rose tinted glasses where I live.

Exactly. I found this quote (below) from a few months back by Phantomshare, detailing the 'leaked early version of the first offer.

According to leaks seen by Socialist Worker, there will be no (or a very low) basic pay rise. In order to get a lump sum of a few hundred pounds,

workers will have to assist in plans to save around £350 million in operating costs.

Over 20 conditions must be met to reach this 90-day business plan target, including:


The removal of night shifts in delivery offices
Monthly pay
Clear post boxes a maximum of twice daily
Work on first class only on Sundays and bank holidays
No “inefficientâ€

[BELIAL]

It's a done deal. Majority support secures it's introduction. Those on the PEC who voted for it have carried the membership. Given this mandate and the stated belief that this deal is robust and secures our futures
Is there any impediment preventing those who voted in favour ,or those aware of who voted in favour going public?

[edinburghsteve]

Guys/Gals its not all doom and gloom, remember do the job correct and RM can't touch you or they could be facing a claim off unfair dismissal. You also have Health and Safety rules.
We'll just have to get used to the new times. Just think theirs always people worse off than us in around the world.

[k979aaa]

It's a done deal. Majority support secures it's introduction. Those on the PEC who voted for it have carried the membership. Given this mandate and the stated belief that this deal is robust and secures our futures
Is there any impediment preventing those who voted in favour ,or those aware of who voted in favour going public?

SHAME