CWU strongly worded letter time : Royal Mail Group Attendance Procedure

geordieboy123 · Post by **geordieboy123** » 30 Mar 2020, 14:48

geordieboy123 wrote:
geordieboy123 wrote:
POSTMAN wrote:Royal Mail Group Attendance Procedure

In the last few weeks we have been in negotiations with Royal Mail on attendance issues linked to the Coronavirus.

(9th March 2020 we wrote – RM responded 12th March, we met on 13th March and implemented 16th March. – At this point, Maximum isolation period 14 days).

(Over the weekend of 20th March 2020, Government announce vulnerable people need to self-isolate for 12 weeks. Again we wrote to RM on 23rd March, requesting the review be brought forward due to this change. Royal Mail were not prepared to move the review date forward.)

We took the initiative and wrote to Royal Mail requesting:

· Members with less than 12 months service will get paid sick leave for Coronavirus Covid-19 sick absence

· Any sick absence due to Coronavirus Covid-19 absences to be discounted from the Attendance Procedure

· Members who are on half / no pay – get full pay for Coronavirus Covid-19 sick absence.

· Where members have to take time off to look after dependents – Paid Special Leave.

· We have secured:

* Full pay for members isolating with coronavirus symptoms – including those who have worked for RM for under a year

* Full pay for members falling into the vulnerable category (as defined by receiving government letter) for 12 weeks isolation

* Coronavirus sickness absence to be discounted from the attendance agreement.

We are in disagreement over:

* Royal Mail do not want to offer pay to those who isolate due to vulnerable person being part of their household

* Royal Mail do not want to offer FULL pay to Members who are on half / no pay having exhausted sick pay due to being ill previously.

To be absolutely clear we are not in agreement with Royal Mail on these issues and will press them again ‪tomorrow morning‬. I will be able to update members ‪at 4pm tomorrow‬ (Monday) on our Facebook Live Q&A.

Carl Maden
Acting Assistant Secretary
What about the vulnerable group who get the free flu jab every year ie people with diabetes, heart disease etc?
I can’t believe this group has been forgotten about what’s going on

Government guidance has just been released for the free flu jab group and its the same as before but rather than being reviewed at the end of March it states that” this is likely to be in place for some weeks “ so I’m staying off

scarface · Post by **scarface** » 30 Mar 2020, 15:22

Looking at the latest developments from CWU, as it stands, RM will not be paying for self-isolation due to member of family having symptoms (14 days). Full pay is only promised for employees WITH symptoms/coronavirus/from vulnerable groups. 4pm CWU Facebook Q&A when they will share more info on this.
Absolutely disgraceful. I suggest we all just walk out.

sindba · Post by **sindba** » 30 Mar 2020, 15:47

scarface wrote:Looking at the latest developments from CWU, as it stands, RM will not be paying for self-isolation due to member of family having symptoms (14 days). Full pay is only promised for employees WITH symptoms/coronavirus/from vulnerable groups. 4pm CWU Facebook Q&A when they will share more info on this.
Absolutely disgraceful. I suggest we all just walk out.

Really? Haha Royal Mail are unreal.

I hope the media pick up on how they're behaving, same as they did with Ashley and that wazock from Weatherspoons.

mjd24 · Post by **mjd24** » 30 Mar 2020, 15:57

scarface wrote:Looking at the latest developments from CWU, as it stands, RM will not be paying for self-isolation due to member of family having symptoms (14 days). Full pay is only promised for employees WITH symptoms/coronavirus/from vulnerable groups. 4pm CWU Facebook Q&A when they will share more info on this.
Absolutely disgraceful. I suggest we all just walk out.

Im actually quite shocked if that is the case, considering its government instructions for you to self isolate for 14 days if someone you live with shows symptoms.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 30 Mar 2020, 16:16

scarface wrote:Looking at the latest developments from CWU, as it stands, RM will not be paying for self-isolation due to member of family having symptoms (14 days). Full pay is only promised for employees WITH symptoms/coronavirus/from vulnerable groups. 4pm CWU Facebook Q&A when they will share more info on this.
Absolutely disgraceful. I suggest we all just walk out.

Royal Mail's own guidance would suggest otherwise.

3.Self-isolation, testing and reporting

What is the latest government advice re self-isolation for employees?

The situation is constantly changing and you should check this guidance for the latest advice on this area.

Our understanding of the current position is that employees could be isolating for between 7 and 14 days and this could be extended by around a week if they develop symptoms during self-isolation.

All absences should be treated as sickness absence. Managers should choose “Coronavirus with Symptoms” if the employee has symptoms and “Coronavirus Self Isolation” if they do not have symptoms. Please update the absence if the reason for absence changes.

You can access up to date guidance on what steps to take whilst self-isolating on the NHS website, available here.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 30 Mar 2020, 16:29

The CWU Facebook thing tonight, and most nights are not going to tell you anything new, unless there is some groundbreaking deal done.
There is a document out which is a copy/paste of the document that Royal Mail put out, it's here...
2nd post PDF in the Global Announcement...
https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 71&t=94715" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I've cut it down to various posts in stickies in this forum.
Woody has already debunked one post the post above this with information that is already on the site in the global announcement, stickies, yadda yadda.

Neverwasadoor · Post by **Neverwasadoor** » 30 Mar 2020, 16:55

Carl Madden ( CWU national officer) just said that Royal Mail will not pay you if you are self isolating for 14 days !!!

Neverwasadoor · Post by **Neverwasadoor** » 30 Mar 2020, 16:57

To be clear if self isolating as someone else has symptoms. They will only pay if you have it, and as theres no tests, how would you know.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 30 Mar 2020, 17:23

The union Q&A thing is itself contradictory.

Questions and Answers.
A. What absences will I be paid for and what pay will I receive?
Sick Pay will be paid in the following circumstances.
• Self-Isolation due to YOU having symptoms.
• YOU having the Coronavirus.
• If YOU are in a vulnerable group and have to self-isolate for up to 12 weeks.

Then it says...

C. What is the latest government advice re self-isolation for Members with Symptoms?

The situation is constantly changing and you should check this guidance for the latest advice on this area.
Our understanding of the current position is that Members who do not fall into the vulnerable categories could be self-isolating for between 7 and 14 days and this could be extended by
around a week if they develop symptoms during self-isolation.

All absences should be treated as sickness absence.

Do you know something I think the union have this wrong.
If all absence is counted as sick absence it has to be paid.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 30 Mar 2020, 17:24

You must have misheard, even a comment on there clarified it. Either way, he's wrong.
EDIT:@Neverwasadoor
And what Woody said.

Which brings me to that PM I sent you Woody.

dembz90 · Post by **dembz90** » 30 Mar 2020, 17:26

After telling me last week I had to isolate for 12 weeks due to diabetes, My GP has today told me that I will not receive a shielding letter to show my manager. Gave me a line for stress instead.. Does anyone know if I will receive full pay?

Post by **POSTMAN** » 30 Mar 2020, 17:28

dembz90 wrote:After telling me last week I had to isolate for 12 weeks due to diabetes, My GP has today told me that I will not receive a shielding letter to show my manager. Gave me a line for stress instead.. Does anyone know if I will receive full pay?

If it's a sick note for stress, yes.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 30 Mar 2020, 17:29

Just got this reply from the RM COVID-19 support team.

Hi, I was just seeking clarification on whether staff are paid when the have to follow government guidelines and self isolate because a member of their family has symptoms of Coronavirus.

Regards Woody

Hi Woody,

Without all the facts that pertain to your situation then I am unable to provide you with comprehensive advice, you should speak to your line manager.

General rule of thumb is that if the medical advice has been sought and this advice states that you must self-isolate, then this is likely to constitute a sick absence and you should provide your manager with the evidence of this advice.

For staff wanting to remain off work due to a member of the family being at risk would not constitute a sick absence as the employee is not sick. Therefore it would be unpaid leave, annual leave or where applicable; working from home. This is in accordance with Section 57 of the Employment Rights Act (1996) which outlines that employees are allowed a reasonable amount of unpaid time off due to a dependent.

Thanks,

XXXX– Advice & Support

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 30 Mar 2020, 17:35

POSTMAN wrote:
dembz90 wrote:After telling me last week I had to isolate for 12 weeks due to diabetes, My GP has today told me that I will not receive a shielding letter to show my manager. Gave me a line for stress instead.. Does anyone know if I will receive full pay?
If it's a sick note for stress, yes.

It could be important at a later date that the line for stress mentions the current situation. Royal Mail have said that most absence related to coronavirus will be disregarded, as a rep I would be pushing for that to include stress surrounding the Coronavirus outbreak.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 30 Mar 2020, 17:36

Which is exactly the same as what is in the stickies, and the PDF in the global announcement? And what we have been telling people.
That email covers 2 stickies...
Self-isolation, testing, reporting and pay
And
Not wanting to attend work because of concerns about a family member at home