Corporate manslaughter

sindba · Post by **sindba** » 29 Mar 2020, 22:27

Just down the internet rabbit hole tonight, funny what you get reading. Ho hum...

An indictable offence[8] is committed if the way in which an organisation's activities are managed or organised:[9]

Causes a person's death; and

Amounts to a gross breach of a relevant duty of care owed by the organisation to the deceased;

— and the way in which its activities are managed or organised by its senior management is a substantial element in the breach.[10

cornstar18 · Post by **cornstar18** » 29 Mar 2020, 22:46

Wow... you do realise the majority of people will have to contract this illness at some point... and as a supposedly fit and healthy workforce we should be pretty well equipped to fight it.
People in a vulnerable group or with people close who are vulnerable should isolate, but the rest quite frankly should get on with it. Why are we so entitled... I read that there are 7.1m key workers.. we need to keep some sort of society going

sindba · Post by **sindba** » 29 Mar 2020, 22:49

cornstar18 wrote:Wow... you do realise the majority of people will have to contract this illness at some point... and as a supposedly fit and healthy workforce we should be pretty well equipped to fight it.
People in a vulnerable group or with people close who are vulnerable should isolate, but the rest quite frankly should get on with it. Why are we so entitled... I read that there are 7.1m key workers.. we need to keep some sort of society going

So why are the Govt putting strict rules in place to avoid us contracting the illness?

And why are Royal Mail not abiding by those rules?

cornstar18 · Post by **cornstar18** » 29 Mar 2020, 22:57

Royal Mail have issued clear guidelines. They can’t monitor every single postman/woman every day. We each have a responsibility to respect other people’s space. It’s difficult... what do you want ? An office to yourself?
If the government says shut it all down then fine, but they haven’t.
Like I say we can’t all hide and let the nhs deal with it, society needs to function on some level.

Cluaran · Post by **Cluaran** » 29 Mar 2020, 23:36

cornstar18 wrote:Royal Mail have issued clear guidelines. They can’t monitor every single postman/woman every day. We each have a responsibility to respect other people’s space. It’s difficult... what do you want ? An office to yourself?
If the government says shut it all down then fine, but they haven’t.
Like I say we can’t all hide and let the nhs deal with it, society needs to function on some level.

Don't make me laugh!! Clear guidelines that are being IGNORED every day of the week!!!

Pumpernickel · Post by **Pumpernickel** » 29 Mar 2020, 23:52

sindba wrote:
cornstar18 wrote:Wow... you do realise the majority of people will have to contract this illness at some point... and as a supposedly fit and healthy workforce we should be pretty well equipped to fight it.
People in a vulnerable group or with people close who are vulnerable should isolate, but the rest quite frankly should get on with it. Why are we so entitled... I read that there are 7.1m key workers.. we need to keep some sort of society going
So why are the Govt putting strict rules in place to avoid us contracting the illness?

And why are Royal Mail not abiding by those rules?

The "suggestions" (I'll believe they're rules when non-essential work ceases, including any non-essential work we do) are in place to slow the spread so we don't all turn up at A&E on the same day. They (and anyone with any sense) knows most of us ("us" being the population of the majority of the world) will contract this at some point, but it would be helpful if we spaced our infections out enough that one person can vacate a bed before the next person needs it.

I can't speak as to why RM are being a bit flippant with spacing and making unreasonable suggestions of staff with no access to any facilities for hours "frequently washing hands".

It's up to us to do what we can where we can to look out for each other.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 30 Mar 2020, 07:43

Royal Mail have issued clear guidelines. They can’t monitor every single postman/woman every day.

Why have 15,000 managers then?

We each have a responsibility to respect other people’s space.

Okay so say I fulfil my responsibility but because my line manager likes to play Candy Crush during IPS my colleague doesn't and I get coronavirus and die, who does my family hold responsible?
It's not enough for a company to have rules, they also have a responsibility to properly implement and monitor them.

Pilots are not allowed to drink a bottle of vodka before they jump behind the controls of an aircraft, do you think BA leave it to 'personal responsibility' to make sure that doesn't happen?

norris9 · Post by **norris9** » 30 Mar 2020, 07:55

Imagine if every worker complained 'Muh health!', 'why am I working!?'

You will have no NHS, no 750,000 volunteers, no 20,000 retired NHS workers coming back, no supermarket workers, no important documents being sent out that you may need to run your business, no presents for your children on their birthday, no food delivered, no police on the streets, no fire service....

You can make out we only deliver junk mail, but that is frankly bull poop. People still need food, medicine, gifts, contact lenses, documents to help them run their business from home, vitamins, cell phones, anything to keep them sane while locked in....

If you think RM should shut down then you think all deliveries should shut down and then you will be at home annoyed that you can't order anything.

manchesterpunk · Post by **manchesterpunk** » 30 Mar 2020, 08:00

We’ve just had 500,000 Joe public sign up to VOLUNTEER to help the NHS probably with very basic PPE. I’m sorry but we need to suck it up and get on with it. I’m proud to be getting on with it. If the Non-Essential items like vinyl records, make up, beer, fancy dress items keep people happy while all their freedom has been taken away then we’re contributing to keeping people sane ... we are essential. Stop crying or sign of sick with stress for 6 months and let the rest of us get on with it.

Lewis69 · Post by **Lewis69** » 30 Mar 2020, 08:05

manchesterpunk wrote:We’ve just had 500,000 Joe public sign up to VOLUNTEER to help the NHS probably with very basic PPE. I’m sorry but we need to suck it up and get on with it. I’m proud to be getting on with it. If the Non-Essential items like vinyl records, make up, beer, fancy dress items keep people happy while all their freedom has been taken away then we’re contributing to keeping people sane ... we are essential. Stop crying or sign of sick with stress for 6 months and let the rest of us get on with it.

What a hero !!

manchesterpunk · Post by **manchesterpunk** » 30 Mar 2020, 08:16

norris9 wrote:Imagine if every worker complained 'Muh health!', 'why am I working!?'

You will have no NHS, no 750,000 volunteers, no 20,000 retired NHS workers coming back, no supermarket workers, no important documents being sent out that you may need to run your business, no presents for your children on their birthday, no food delivered, no police on the streets, no fire service....

You can make out we only deliver junk mail, but that is frankly bull poop. People still need food, medicine, gifts, contact lenses, documents to help them run their business from home, vitamins, cell phones, anything to keep them sane while locked in....

If you think RM should shut down then you think all deliveries should shut down and then you will be at home annoyed that you can't order anything.

EXACTLY!!

malawihap · Post by **malawihap** » 30 Mar 2020, 08:42

manchesterpunk wrote:We’ve just had 500,000 Joe public sign up to VOLUNTEER to help the NHS probably with very basic PPE. I’m sorry but we need to suck it up and get on with it. I’m proud to be getting on with it. If the Non-Essential items like vinyl records, make up, beer, fancy dress items keep people happy while all their freedom has been taken away then we’re contributing to keeping people sane ... we are essential. Stop crying or sign of sick with stress for 6 months and let the rest of us get on with it.

All well and good, but when your in the age group more at risk, with hypertension blood pressure, then the lets get on with it attitude does not come so easy to except. If your a bit younger and fitter then it does not seem so scary.

derricksmyth · Post by **derricksmyth** » 30 Mar 2020, 09:50

cornstar18 wrote:Wow... you do realise the majority of people will have to contract this illness at some point... and as a supposedly fit and healthy workforce we should be pretty well equipped to fight it.
People in a vulnerable group or with people close who are vulnerable should isolate, but the rest quite frankly should get on with it. Why are we so entitled... I read that there are 7.1m key workers.. we need to keep some sort of society going

I am off with it at the moment Cornstar. I ran the Luton Half Marathon at the end of October and i would class myself as reasonably fit. This is one virus that is unpleasant even in a very mild form and leaves you breathless and fatigued. Even sports people are taking 2 weeks to get back on their feet. So i have to disagree with your" get on with it" statement, everyone should be protected properly if they have to work . The South Koreans learned this the hard way a few years back , and were prepared this time. That is the model the world has to learn from.

manchesterpunk · Post by **manchesterpunk** » 30 Mar 2020, 10:49

malawihap wrote:
manchesterpunk wrote:We’ve just had 500,000 Joe public sign up to VOLUNTEER to help the NHS probably with very basic PPE. I’m sorry but we need to suck it up and get on with it. I’m proud to be getting on with it. If the Non-Essential items like vinyl records, make up, beer, fancy dress items keep people happy while all their freedom has been taken away then we’re contributing to keeping people sane ... we are essential. Stop crying or sign of sick with stress for 6 months and let the rest of us get on with it.
All well and good, but when your in the age group more at risk, with hypertension blood pressure, then the lets get on with it attitude does not come so easy to except. If your a bit younger and fitter then it does not seem so scary.

Sign off sick and get out of the way ... nobody is being forced to work

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 30 Mar 2020, 11:00

The 'get on with it' brigade are going to kill a lot of people not that they'll notice they'll be too busy 'getting on with it' whatever that means.

This is a job, a pretty tedious and mostly irrelevant cog in the chain of buying pointless tat and I've been doing it for the best part of 30 years. Yes people are grateful when they get stuff but I'm grateful when my local landlord pours me a pint. It doesn't make it crucial to the running of the country.

People just want to go to work and feel as safe as they can possibly be and unfortunately it's not just the employer that makes that difficult, sometimes it's the recklessness of our colleagues.