Nationalising water, energy and Royal Mail would pay for itself within seven years, according to new research

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 15 Nov 2019, 07:53

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 03636.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shareholders would not be paid 'market value' for assets under £50bn nationalisation

The nationalisation of water, energy grids and the Royal Mail would save UK households £7.8 billion a year and pay for itself within seven years, according to new academic research.

A report by Greenwich University’s Public Service International Research Unit put the total cost of compensation to private sector owners at just £49.7 billion – around a quarter of the widely-quoted £196 billion price tag calculated by the CBI last month, which also covered rail.

Labour’s manifesto for the 12 December general election is expected to include commitments to take the rail network, National Grid, water and mail delivery back into public hands.

PSIRU director David Hall said his estimates were based on compensating shareholders for the amount they have invested in utilities being taken into public hands, rather than paying out a “market value” price as the CBI suggested.

Savings are calculated by comparing the current cost of dividends and interest paid by private companies to the cost of refinancing with debt raised by issuing government bonds.

Prof Hall found this would save the UK £2.5bn a year on water, £3.7bn on gas and electricity and a further £1.4bn if existing Private Finance Initiative projects were nationalised.

Professor Hall calculates that the average household would be £142 better off a year as a result of nationalising energy grids, and £113 better off if English water companies were publicly owned.

“Based on intensive empirical research, this paper shows that public ownership of utilities would result in annual savings of just under £8bn – so nationalisation would pay for itself in less than seven years,” said Prof Hall.

“Nationalisation would cost less than £50bn if shareholders are compensated for the amount they have actually invested, rather than costing the country nearly £200bn as claimed by the CBI last month.

“UK law does not require that they be paid the ‘market value’, and it is up to parliament to decide on a case-by-case basis the appropriate amount of compensation.”

Cat Hobbs, director of the pro-nationalisation pressure group We Own It, said public ownership would allow the companies to pursue improvements seen in state-owned enterprises such as the French postal system, which offers food deliveries, home care for people with chronic illnesses and a key concierge service as well as delivering letters.

“It’s absolutely clear that privatisation is bad deal for the public purse, and for our public services,” said Ms Hobbs.

“We’re wasting billions on shareholder dividends and the higher cost of investment in the private sector. By bringing our services into public ownership, we could use that money to deliver better services for all of us.

“Other countries are showing us what this would look like in practice. From Paris cutting bills, cutting leaks and delivering still and sparkling water fountains all across the city to Denmark leading a renewable energy revolution through its publicly owned wind turbines, public ownership is flourishing.”

Post by **rambo1** » 15 Nov 2019, 16:07

Would be very interesting to see how much Corbyn would 'compensate' us for our shares. Currently sitting at £2.31 , I'd like to see him pay a very healthy premium on that figure, being as he thought we had been sold 'on the cheap' when the IPO share price was £3.60. Bet nobody has asked him that question. Shouldn't he be asking the British tax payer if they want to stump up the cash to buy royal mail? That's a pretty big pension liability to pay for especially if we fall into a loss making company.

Post by **rambo1** » 15 Nov 2019, 16:11

If Corbyn is so against big companies paying shareholder dividends, how's he think pensions are going to meet their outgoings? If they can't invest to get regular good returns. Maybe he's not too bothered, being worth over £3million with a guaranteed pension in the £100k mark.

yellowbelly · Post by **yellowbelly** » 15 Nov 2019, 19:27

rambo1 wrote:Would be very interesting to see how much Corbyn would 'compensate' us for our shares. Currently sitting at £2.31 , I'd like to see him pay a very healthy premium on that figure, being as he thought we had been sold 'on the cheap' when the IPO share price was £3.60. Bet nobody has asked him that question.....

We might not even get the option of cash for our shares. I'd imagine we'd get a Govt issued bond with a nominal value that would pay out a set rate
of interest each year. The market value of the bond may bear no relation to the nominal value of the bond. Who knows what the market value of
these bonds might be if there's 1000's of posties and investment banks/funds trying to sell soon after issue.

https://www.which.co.uk/money/investing ... headline_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 16 Nov 2019, 08:32

rambo1 wrote:Shouldn't he be asking the British tax payer if they want to stump up the cash to buy royal mail?

You mean something like putting a manifesto together and asking for your vote in a General Election.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 16 Nov 2019, 10:06

rambo1 wrote:Would be very interesting to see how much Corbyn would 'compensate' us for our shares.

Going by this from the above article-

“Nationalisation would cost less than £50bn if shareholders are compensated for the amount they have actually invested,
“UK law does not require that they be paid the ‘market value’, and it is up to parliament to decide on a case-by-case basis the appropriate amount of compensation.”

I'm guessing 2/5ths of feckall.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 16 Nov 2019, 10:17

A better thing in terms of RM would be for the government to axe DSA

Post by **rambo1** » 16 Nov 2019, 17:49

Tman wrote:
rambo1 wrote:Would be very interesting to see how much Corbyn would 'compensate' us for our shares.
Going by this from the above article-

“Nationalisation would cost less than £50bn if shareholders are compensated for the amount they have actually invested,
“UK law does not require that they be paid the ‘market value’, and it is up to parliament to decide on a case-by-case basis the appropriate amount of compensation.”

I'm guessing 2/5ths of feckall.

Commi Corbyn would ruin the county's economy. Any whiff of labour getting close to power would see royal mail and bt shares plummet. Thought CWU were labour supporters and they would support something which would lose many 1000's of hard working posties a lot of money. Anyone thinking that the job would be easier if it were in govt hands should think again. It would still have to pay it's way, and with no private investment coming in, wouldn't be long before the pressure would be on. He wants to give workers in companies over a certain size, shares in that company and yet he wants to take ours off us! Hypocrisy.........from a man who's net worth is over £3 million! Don't get me wrong, I don't like Boris much either but at least they're willing to help a hard worker, saving and investing for future life to get on with it and not go backwards.

Post by **charlatans** » 16 Nov 2019, 18:08

Nationalisation of all the services mentioned sounds fine to me. I buy and sell shares regularly to get a few % on my savings. Sell your shares before the election if you are worried. Corbyns policys sound good to me although they would sound better to me if someone else was in charge of the labour party. Aimho.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 17 Nov 2019, 03:25

rambo1 wrote: Commi Corbyn would ruin the county's economy. Any whiff of labour getting close to power would see royal mail and bt shares plummet. Thought CWU were labour supporters and they would support something which would lose many 1000's of hard working posties a lot of money. Anyone thinking that the job would be easier if it were in govt hands should think again. It would still have to pay it's way, and with no private investment coming in, wouldn't be long before the pressure would be on. He wants to give workers in companies over a certain size, shares in that company and yet he wants to take ours off us! Hypocrisy.........from a man who's net worth is over £3 million! Don't get me wrong, I don't like Boris much either but at least they're willing to help a hard worker, saving and investing for future life to get on with it and not go backwards.

Commi Corbyn, and worker-friendly Boris - I thought I had heard it all. Guess I haven't.

Phunter · Post by **Phunter** » 18 Nov 2019, 14:07

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
rambo1 wrote: Commi Corbyn would ruin the county's economy. Any whiff of labour getting close to power would see royal mail and bt shares plummet. Thought CWU were labour supporters and they would support something which would lose many 1000's of hard working posties a lot of money. Anyone thinking that the job would be easier if it were in govt hands should think again. It would still have to pay it's way, and with no private investment coming in, wouldn't be long before the pressure would be on. He wants to give workers in companies over a certain size, shares in that company and yet he wants to take ours off us! Hypocrisy.........from a man who's net worth is over £3 million! Don't get me wrong, I don't like Boris much either but at least they're willing to help a hard worker, saving and investing for future life to get on with it and not go backwards.
Commi Corbyn, and worker-friendly Boris - I thought I had heard it all. Guess I haven't.

Certainly someone would like to become a partner and facilitate his portfolio built up during the last few months.

work · Post by **work** » 18 Nov 2019, 16:59

[/quote]
Commi Corbyn would ruin the county's economy.
Are you from one of them perhaps? The Home Counties maybe, but most Northern and Midlands counties economies would be lifted by his re-distribution of wealth policies...no wot i meen

work · Post by **work** » 18 Nov 2019, 17:10

rambo1 wrote:Would be very interesting to see how much Corbyn would 'compensate' us for our shares. Currently sitting at £2.31 , I'd like to see him pay a very healthy premium on that figure, being as he thought we had been sold 'on the cheap' when the IPO share price was £3.60. Bet nobody has asked him that question. Shouldn't he be asking the British tax payer if they want to stump up the cash to buy royal mail? That's a pretty big pension liability to pay for especially if we fall into a loss making company.

if, if, if

. A most dangerous game, indeed, my tory-boy (non) friend!
Are you scared or something, that your (free) pot of shares will be shared out with the unfortunately worse-off, huh?

I'm sure you will be compensated accordingly for your 'shares'. Corbyn offers 6:1 Roubles per £1 on shares. If one refused those roulette odds I also heard that these 'commies' shoot capitalist shareholders for fun

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 18 Nov 2019, 18:02

SpacePhoenix wrote:A better thing in terms of RM would be for the government to axe DSA

I agree that stopping the DSA regime would be fairer on RM and be more of a level playing field. The trouble is that the DSA and competition rules on issues such as government supporting companies or industries is ruled over by the EU. The UK tend to follow all these rules whereas most other countries in the EU flout the rules. This has resulted in an open season on anything in the UK that is worth buying up but if a company tried to buy up, for example, a French utility company it wouldn't be allowed to happen.
Until we leave the EU, which is unlikely to happen even if the two halves of Ireland can be reunited, then we are stuck with the DSA and unfair competition rules. The only options left for RM are the ones that are bad for us posties such as a five day operation or pulling out of letter delivery and lowering working conditions.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 18 Nov 2019, 19:59

Celgar wrote:The only options left for RM are the ones that are bad for us posties such as a five day operation or pulling out of letter delivery and lowering working conditions.

I can't see the government ever allowing RM to pull out of letter delivery as who else would they find that would deliver letters to every single last place in the UK, even the most remotest places