FUTURE ACTION IF WE GET A "NO" VOTE

[dvbuk55]

We are Not to sure where though ,but ive been at meetings and read info where the CWU are moving in to different companys and recruiting people in to the union,Maybe someone else on the site knows a bit more.

Take a look at the CWU website - you'll see that they are moving into many avenues - even our competitors. Revenue is revenue and they can let anyone down for the same money.

[johnnyp]

We are Not to sure where though ,but ive been at meetings and read info where the CWU are moving in to different companys and recruiting people in to the union,Maybe someone else on the site knows a bit more.

Take a look at the CWU website - you'll see that they are moving into many avenues - even our competitors. Revenue is revenue and they can let anyone down for the same money.

Thanks dvbuk55 At least there consistent and not just as you say only letting us down.

[Glenno]

what exacly do WE want, vote no is fine but we look too negative not offering an alternative . Can we not use this forum to gather ideas WHAT WE WILL DO for x% rise over 2YEARS. New mech trays in the future will give roads in number order and will affect prep time, amount of time unknown. Let's bypass the union ( if we h
ave to) and use our experiee and knowledge to provide an alternative driven by grass roots postman.

Hi steviemac some goodreasons for beingpart of a union is so we can talk and discuss matters/issues raised witheachother and try to come up with a logical answer wheter right or wrong WE agree with your voice but if there was no Union would you be as disregarding as you are know with regards BYPASSING YOUR UNION i dont think so FOR YOU TO SPEAK YOU MUST LET YOUR UNION SPEAK (LOCAL or National) on your behalf me thinks

[steverev]

there's no question that Leighton, Crozier:- the capitalist heads of RM ("run it for profits"!), running it (down) on behalf of the (Lab) government who actually own RM, are the ones to blame for the current crisis in the Post, but
the issues/cutbacks/attacks faced by the workers on the Post are very similar to those faced by council workers
(we are currently refusing to sign the new contracts the council management (birmingham) are trying to impose on us - competing with the private sector; re-grading that is mostly DE-grading; pay-rise (or pay CUT if inflation is taken into account) dependant on "performance", and plenty else that serves to further degrade us.
so our main problem is management
but our union leaders 'leave very much to be desired': they don't seem to have any idea of how to lead us, against a management that is clearly well-prepared for the disputes that they are causing (management are causing).

we (UNISON local government) recently had a ballot for strikes over the pay claim - they offered us 2.495 after our consultative ballot showed 82% for a strike-ballot over the 2% original offer. the ballot was 52% in favour, after a 'campaign' by the union leadership in favour of a YES vote for strikes which no.one noticed; the (only) leaflet was frankly rubbish, and hardly would enthuse the most enthusiastic member.
but the union leadership said "NO strike!"

i was saying that they should link our dispute to the postalworkers' dispute - say, "if you vote YES for action, it will be co.ordinated with the CWU postal workers..."* - also, the PCS civil servants (led by members of the Socialist Party and socialist Mark Serwotka) have been out on strike against terrible (planned) job losses and they threaten more -
why can't we co.ordinate our action?!
UNISON say they support the demands of the PCS, and of course the CWU postal workers
so why don't these members of the TUC back each other up?

* CWU leaders had not yet signed that terrible deal
steve

[heresjohnny]

Had a card from the union through the door urging me to vote yes,I expect all you lads will receive one too
how long since we last went out on strike?I believe its was conspiracy to keep us waiting this long ,there hoping the rank and file will just forget what we lost in the 8 days and now we are back earning and with Xmas approacing (especially posties with familes) we will vote yes and accept beware brothers beware Ward and Hayes are hand in glove with this rotten government. Alan Johnson springs to mind.............

[dogfood]

Got mine today also. This has really got me pissed off. We now have the CWU working for RM, using our money to try and persuade us to vote yes. They should issue us with an outline of the agreement without any prejudice or slant, just the facts and let us make our own minds up. The money used for doing the work for RM which this latest shite is, would have been better spent employing a decent PR company during the IA to put our case to the media and general public.

These fcukin clowns at the top of the CWU are really testing my patience...

[BELIAL]

LOTS got killed off in my office

[steverev]

brothers/sisters! dogfood, the cwu leadership should, i agree, give the facts of the deal
and let you the cwu members decide - i have seen the deal and it's crap, everything the management wanted
BEFORE the strikes that no.one can afford, and that IS the fact!

as for cwu employing a PA to put the case to the public/media - unfortunately, the media is controlled by the gaffers and their friends (like Crozier), and isn't Leighton a director of News International who publish the Sun and Times?
why would they publish stuff against the RM management? remember the miners' strike and the strike at the Sun (or was it the Star?) over the wishes of the management at the Sun to print a front page comparing Scargill to Hitler?

linkinpark, they may well mark your ballot paper as "spoilt" rather than a "NO" vote!


this stuff on the news about the disappearance of 25mil personal details "in transit" - no doubt this stuff that got lost was carried by one of the private "competitors" of RM
has the cwu GOT a "pr" department? mind you, they're in favour of the deal!
almost useless!!

OH! also, about "wasted" cwu money - in the 2nd quarter of this year (when in dispute with ...the Labour government)
the cwu donated i think it was £356,000 to the Labour Party to which they are (YOU are) affiliated!
me too, in UNISON, and UNISON gave even more! (details at site of electoral commission)

[TrueBlueTerrier]

There's very little chance of IA before christmas, all assuming a no vote, ballot closes 27th nov, will take union a week at least to get results so thats 1st week dec, then the pec sit around and talk about it thats second week dec, then announce strike dates 7 days notice required thats christmas, thats without having to cancel the first lot of strike dates due to union screwing up paper work.

Your telling me it is going to take a week to count the results of 130,000 ballot papers your kidding me!. Result should be two day's max from close of ballot!.

Ah but it would only take 2 days if counting the vote was the main reason for the count. If, and I suspect the CWU expect it, we do get a No vote I think strategy will come into play and the Union will delay the result as much as they can legally so that they can respond to the members and Royal Mail, and also to come up with a "way forward" as they don't seem to have any plans for a No vote yet.

[dogfood]

An exclusive picture of the PEC and RM management posing for a photo prior to a meeting to discuss the outcome of the postal workers vote.

[/img]

[heresjohnny]

An exclusive picture of the PEC and RM management posing for a photo prior to a meeting to discuss the outcome of the postal workers vote.

[/img]

really really funny D.Food keep em coming. Hey Al :lfo and Oi :cfo will you be at the match tonight ?freebees?

[goinpostal]

TBT is right, they will try to spin out a no vote when one day of strike action during christmas is worth 3 days because of traffic and because of how important it is for the capitalists. 2 48 hour strikes would murder them. We need to vote no and demand they restart the strikes!

In terms of the PCS, we certainly need to strike together. However now Serwotka and the PCS leadership, SP included, have dropped a majority vote for strike action and is going for more negotiations again - just like our CWU leaders did 2 x! Seems to me that this is where the left becomes part of the leftwing of the union bureacracy. A public sector wide strike was a real possibility and one frittered away by union leaders including our own unfortunately.

If we go on strike in December, the silver lining of that dark cloud is they aren't on strike so we should demand the CWU does a massive solidarity fundraising drive so that it can put as much money back in members' pockets as possible.

Proved right - the hard way
Workers Power 320 – November 2007
In September, the Trades Union Council called for a campaign of "co-ordinated industrial action" against the public sector pay restraint imposed by prime minister Gordon Brown.

Pressure from below forced unions, such as Unite, GMB, Unison, CWU, PCS, NUT and college union UCU, into balloting to reject the pay offer.

What happened?

The teachers' union NUT put back their ballot until January.

Unison in the NHS said that their offer was the "best that could be achieved without industrial action". The union leaders put out a leaflet supporting the deal and threatened branches and activists campaigning for a "no" vote with disciplinary action. The result was to accept the offer.

Unite and GMB balloted their members in local government over the slightly revised offer of just under 2.5 per cent (still a pay cut) saying, "It is the best that can be achieved without industrial action." The offer was accepted.

Unison in local government last month voted: 74,631 members (or 51.6 per cent) for action, and 70,088 (48.4 per cent) against, on a 24.4 per cent turnout. Unison's national joint council endorsed a statement that read: "However, in all the circumstances, including the narrowness of the majority and the size of the poll, this result does not constitute the basis for viable industrial action to beak the government's pay policy." So it accepted the offer.

In the civil service union PCS, 68 per cent voted in favour of action on a 34 per cent turnout. The leadership voted not to call national industrial action, despite admitting the "Cabinet Office has so far refused" to rule out compulsory redundancies.

So both the PCS and Unison members voted for industrial action but their leaders called it off - so much for democracy!

Meanwhile, the CWU leadership is selling a deal that is the exactly what the management wants, and what the members rejected back in April.

So what happened to the concerted public sector fight back? It was undermined and defeated by the trade union leaders.

And what is the left saying?

Janice Godrich, president of the PCS, is a member of the Socialist Party, which also dominates the Department for Works and Pensions group that is most under attack. Instead of criticising the calling off of industrial action in the PCS, Godrich signed up to it. The SP has even gone on to say: "On May Day, successful PCS strike action shocked the government and was a warning of further action if cuts continue." (The Socialist) But it hasn't, the union leadership caved in, with the SP supporting the decision.

Meanwhile, in the CWU, Socialist Workers Party member and union president Jane Loftus voted against the union leadership's acceptance of Royal Mail's rotten offer - but then refused to campaign against the deal among the membership!

And following the capitulation of the SP and the SWP, other parts of the left say that to fight more effectively, we need more members in the unions and better shop stewards organisation. OK we agree. But workers join unions when they fight.

What is really needed is to break the stranglehold of these union leaders who block action even when the members vote for it, and who basically do managers' job for them. Militant workers and the socialist groups need to break with the idea that all we need to improve our unions is to elect more militant leaders. This policy of focusing entirely on electing left officials (known as broad leftism) ignores the need to keep elected officials under control, so that they can't sell out even if they try. It means, as well as electing better leaders, we need to start fighting for rank and file membership control of the unions.

Workers Power has argued consistently for committees of public sector workers to organise joint strike action and for a rank and file movement to wrest control of the unions from the unaccountable leaders. The Socialist Party and the Socialist Workers Party need to take this on board and stop covering for the union leaders in the civil service and the post.

This autumn's events have shown again that Workers Power is right on this - but it has shown it the hard way.

http://www.workerspower.com/index.php?i ... 61,0,0,1,0

i was saying that they should link our dispute to the postalworkers' dispute - say, "if you vote YES for action, it will be co.ordinated with the CWU postal workers..."* - also, the PCS civil servants (led by members of the Socialist Party and socialist Mark Serwotka) have been out on strike against terrible (planned) job losses and they threaten more -
why can't we co.ordinate our action?!
steve

[dvbuk55]

This is an indictment of the union movement in the UK. Is there any union left with the balls to make a stand AT ALL COSTS or not? If not then forget the union you may as well take out an insurance policy against victimisation. The CWU are bleating on about Unionists in Colombia being victimised by the ruling Junta - but they do nothing about its own members being victimised by this Government and in fact collude with it.

[heresjohnny]

This is an indictment of the union movement in the UK. Is there any union left with the balls to make a stand AT ALL COSTS or not? If not then forget the union you may as well take out an insurance policy against victimisation. The CWU are bleating on about Unionists in Colombia being victimised by the ruling Junta - but they do nothing about its own members being victimised by this Government and in fact collude with it.

Hear Hear, next year at The Olympics in Communist China, our beloved
leaders,will be there rubbing shoulders with the biggest human
rites abusers ever, back slapping and nodding and winking.free
hospitality and like you say('dvbuk55') do nowt about its own
members being oppressed by this rotten government,

[goinpostal]

It certainly is an indictment but the scale of enthusiasm for the strike and anger over the sell out means that a serious rank and file movement could develop in the CWU. After all even if the worst case scenario comes true and its a yes vote (not the most likely scenario, even my pro-deal area rep thinks) still its not like the miner's strike, they aren't closing all the offices and leaving a handful behind, we will still be here and angier than ever! Come to the vote no post-ballot meeting on Dec 2 in London to discuss it and the next steps in how to reclaim the union.