General Election 12th December

[Woody Guthrie]

Brexit will mean that more British people are trained to do skilled jobs as firms will find it much harder to recruit staff from EU countries.

1) I thought the complaint was we were letting too many unskilled immigrants in.

2) Without freedom of movement the EU27 are unlikely to agree a free trade deal.

3) Our own government has already said that skilled workers will be welcome.

4) Brexit only addresses EU nationals not the highest proportion of skilled workers from outside the EU.

Since the referendum in June 2016 a clear pattern has emerged. Immigration to the UK from the European Union has declined while the number of people coming from outside the bloc has gone up.

It may be that the two trends are not related, but it seems likely that they are.

With fewer EU workers available than before, businesses and the public sector appear to be looking further afield to fill vacancies.

That's reflected in the statistics for those arriving with a "definite job".

The number of EU citizens in that category dropped from 108,000 in the 12 months before the referendum to 70,000 in the year to last September, whereas non-EU migrants coming to Britain with a definite job offer went up from 51,000 to 69,000

Now bearing in mind we've always had full control over non-EU migration why do you think it's so high?

[nightcrawler]

Can you opt out of election stuff? Didn't know you could do that.

You can't

You can

You can't totally opt-out of delivering election material, you can opt-out on safety ground and conscience for individual parties, though you have to be prepared to back it up.

Which makes it compulsory overtime. It's being going on for far too long, and still the union aren't interested.

They can’t make you go over your time. If you refuse to do election material they will simply ask you to still put them in but you obviously won’t get paid for doing them, BUT you only work until your time then cut-off. Another option is that they will move you to a different walk where the election stuff has been done.

[Route1]

Can you opt out of election stuff? Didn't know you could do that.

You can't

You can

You can't totally opt-out of delivering election material, you can opt-out on safety ground and conscience for individual parties, though you have to be prepared to back it up.

Which makes it compulsory overtime. It's being going on for far too long, and still the union aren't interested.

Its not compulsory overtime. If you dont want to do poll cards / election stuff one of two things will (should) happen

Option 1
You put the stuff in and deliver it up to finishing time & go home. You dont get paid any election payments. Any loops left will be done by someone else on o/t or election payment or preferable both.

Option 2
You get moved temporarily to a different walk so that it can be delivered by someone else.

Either way you dont choose the options, your manager does.

[postslippete]

Since the referendum in June 2016 a clear pattern has emerged. Immigration to the UK from the European Union has declined while the number of people coming from outside the bloc has gone up.

It may be that the two trends are not related, but it seems likely that they are.

With fewer EU workers available than before, businesses and the public sector appear to be looking further afield to fill vacancies.

Getting out of the EU is a key starting point to controlling immigration both from within the EU and outside the bloc because like "woody" mentioned the EU like to have us over a barrel as regards free movement of people = free trade. I'm not against immigrants,like a few have mentioned, a lot of them work long hours for a pittance, many of them working for our competitors I should add. Is this the way forward for us all?? Is EU legislation ensuring that these poor guys are getting better living conditions and a fair wage cause at the moment it seems like they are quite happy to allow businesses and the public sector to look further afield to fill vacancies.

[Woody Guthrie]

Getting out of the EU is a key starting point to controlling immigration both from within the EU and outside the bloc

Sorry you don't get away with just saying something like that without showing your working.

Why would leaving the EU have any affect at all on non-EU immigration.

If anything the facts seem to suggest that even the threat of leaving the EU is increasing the level of non-EU immigration.

[NewPostieUK]

Its not compulsory overtime. If you dont want to do poll cards / election stuff one of two things will (should) happen

Option 1
You put the stuff in and deliver it up to finishing time & go home. You dont get paid any election payments. Any loops left will be done by someone else on o/t or election payment or preferable both.

Option 2
You get moved temporarily to a different walk so that it can be delivered by someone else.

Either way you dont choose the options, your manager does.

Option 1 is not an option in my office. . certainly not on a rural. You must complete.

Option 2 Could happen I suppose. Being a temporary reserve while someone else does my duty. It would be a nightmare to implement ( not my problem, I know), we can't get cover for holidays and sickness
never mind moving people around to cover awkward sods like me.

Either way, we have never been told there is any option but to deliver them. Being awkward makes your life a misery, it's easier to comply.

My point is. . there should be no extra payment. They should be in the normal workload with overtime paid or support offered for those who don't want it. Resources should be in place.

Most of all - we should have to COUNT to f***ers.

[work]

They should be in the normal workload with overtime paid or support offered for those who don't want it. Resources should be in place.

Most of all - we should have to COUNT to f***ers.[/quote]
Agreed, fella...Cut off and let it slide...forget payment, and leave em all behind..."not my job, mate...politics is against my principles...don't want the pay...too much hassle...outside of my contractual hours at this time of year...not part of the USO...GRATUITY BREEDS CONTEMPT...sorry, I'm not flexing for any political party that won't support our industrial dispute, I am a member of the CWU AND UNTIL A PARTY OFFERS TO PROMOTE OUR STRUGGLE IN THEIR MANIFESTO THEN LET THE BACKLOG GO THE WAY OF (MIS-) MANAGEMENT...I'm opting out on personal grounds and i hope the management will deal with it sensitively...the whole job is stressful enough; with IA, xmas pressure, lack of payrise (which was illegally withheld) I just don't think that I will manage any more than my usual time today...surely someone else wants the overtime...until the CWU tells me to my face that I need to touch the items, then I am loathe to do owt but basic hours for basic pay...'cos none of us can believe ANYTHING any manager tells us anymore...Ask your rep for guidance only...& get the measure of the rep, too...if they've got a spine then they may see that this could be the 'go slow' necessary to locally make management s**t some bricks in advance of IA.

[Dingo99]

I am personally dreading this damned election AT CHRISTMAS!!! I have told the DOM I will go over my time (providing they pay overtime) till it gets dark at 16:00 hours. The problem is, that in my small office of only 9 duties, everyone is going to be stretched like never before, so that when I bring packets and mail back (which I never do providing I get paid for extended) that I will then have to do it tomorrow, for e.g I left street 10 and 11 so now I have to do street 10 and 11 first the next day and then the usual first streets on my duty then get left 'till last. There is no proper cut off procedure in my office because NO-ONE ever cuts off, it is unheard of in my office. Dreading it, basically :(

[postslippete]

Getting out of the EU is a key starting point to controlling immigration both from within the EU and outside the bloc

Sorry you don't get away with just saying something like that without showing your working.

Why would leaving the EU have any affect at all on non-EU immigration.

If anything the facts seem to suggest that even the threat of leaving the EU is increasing the level of non-EU immigration.

I think Sajid javid relaxed controls on non-EU migrants sometime earlier this year,which might explain the increase. Maybe we are also getting smarter at detecting forged EU passports perhaps?? I wonder how many thousands of illegal immigrants on the back of a lorry have managed to escape the immigration figures?

The problem with the EU is that they effectively stop us controlling who comes into our country,on what terms,and who can be removed. We don't want people who we think won't contribute to our economy or have a criminal background. So it's wrong not to accept the non-EU migrants who really can.

[Tinoblade]

I am personally dreading this damned election AT CHRISTMAS!!! I have told the DOM I will go over my time (providing they pay overtime) till it gets dark at 16:00 hours. The problem is, that in my small office of only 9 duties, everyone is going to be stretched like never before, so that when I bring packets and mail back (which I never do providing I get paid for extended) that I will then have to do it tomorrow, for e.g I left street 10 and 11 so now I have to do street 10 and 11 first the next day and then the usual first streets on my duty then get left 'till last. There is no proper cut off procedure in my office because NO-ONE ever cuts off, it is unheard of in my office. Dreading it, basically :(

I know it's hard not to worry mate, but you don't get paid to worry about that. You can only do what you can do. If you're willing to work over then you're already doing more than your fair share. Let the gaffers worry about it. That's what they're paid for

[Murdoch]

I'm going to go on strike and still vote Tory, best chance of ousting the hopeless Nationalist up here, I'd vote whoever was best placed to beat them, even Lib Dem and I voted Leave.

Exactly the point I was making, it's a very strange juxtaposition.

The working class feeling like they're going to be best represented by a Tory Government.

People in Scotland voting Tory, haha. What a time to be alive...

[Trail]

I'm going to go on strike and still vote Tory, best chance of ousting the hopeless Nationalist up here, I'd vote whoever was best placed to beat them, even Lib Dem and I voted Leave.

Exactly the point I was making, it's a very strange juxtaposition.

The working class feeling like they're going to be best represented by a Tory Government.

People in Scotland voting Tory, haha. What a time to be alive...

The working class won't be best represented by a Tory government at all. They're money hungry megalomaniacs ran by a lying c*** and all his millionaire mates.

I'm not saying Labour will do any better as they're ran by a Hezbollah/IRA fanboy and all his useless mates.

I'm going to get out of this country within a year. Great Britain/England is no longer great. We're the laughing stock of the world.

[Murdoch]

The working class won't be best represented by a Tory government at all. They're money hungry megalomaniacs ran by a lying c*** and all his millionaire mates.

I'm not saying Labour will do any better as they're ran by a Hezbollah/IRA fanboy and all his useless mates.

I'm going to get out of this country within a year. Great Britain/England is no longer great. We're the laughing stock of the world.

I know that, you know that. Anybody with even the slightest clue about what they stand for, or their record, knows that.

But, you'll still get a huge amount of people saying... "well at least they're not Labour/Lib Dems/SNP" etc

Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind.

And yes, England has been a shithole for a while now, the United Kingdom is disunited, and we are a laughing stock... probably the worst run "developed nation" in the world.

[Mr Rush]

Great Britain/England is no longer great.

Wait. Did it shrink or did Brittany get bigger?

[ripio]

The problem with the EU is that they effectively stop us controlling who comes into our country,on what terms,and who can be removed. We don't want people who we think won't contribute to our economy or have a criminal background.

As an EU member state we already do have the power to restrict EU migrants to those who are 'economically active'.
The UK government just hasn't bothered to utilise these powers.
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