will i go back on stage 1 warning?

[WOODY67]

Just been through this situation CPTNemoUkk is correct once you serve your 6 months you are back to zero again and nothing previous counts!!!!

wrong. that's from a stage 2. and its only if you have less than 4 days off, if you have more then you revert to a stage 1 from a stage 2.

Sorry if I have been mistaken but I wasn't at a stage 2 level I was at stage 1 and HR didn't send anything to my manager. I was only off for 2 days tho.

if it hasn't been issued then your total is less than 14 days or 4 absences, so they can't. make sure you know how many absences you've had in the last 12 months cos this is where people slip up.

I do keep a record of my attendance for reference. So I was aware that the 2 days did make the total in the previous 12 months go over 14 days so I was expecting a trigger, but because I had served my 6 months (stage 1 warning) I didn't get a new stage 1 this is (I believe) because I had served my sentence and been punished (stage 1) for my previous absence. I think that you can't be punished twice for the same thing...just my thought on this

[daveyeff]

well I can assure you it DOES count, so if you haven't been issued a further stage then its been missed and you've been lucky. look at the wording on a stage 1 and it tells you in no uncertain terms. 14 days or 4 absences in 12 MONTHS. you could go over the 14 days and NOT trigger a further stage 1, IF and only IF, you had say 7 days off whilst YOU were actually serving the stage 1 (6 months) because they can't issue a stage one twice if you are already ''serving a sentence' so to speak, but the 7 days will stay on your record for 12 months and any further absences WILL count once the 6 months have been served. believe me when I tell you it is right.

[WOODY67]

well I can assure you it DOES count, so if you haven't been issued a further stage then its been missed and you've been lucky. look at the wording on a stage 1 and it tells you in no uncertain terms. 14 days or 4 absences in 12 MONTHS. you could go over the 14 days and NOT trigger a further stage 1, IF and only IF, you had say 7 days off whilst YOU were actually serving the stage 1 (6 months) because they can't issue a stage one twice if you are already ''serving a sentence' so to speak, but the 7 days will stay on your record for 12 months and any further absences WILL count once the 6 months have been served. believe me when I tell you it is right.

I understand the 14 day 4 sickness limits but as for being 'missed' I don't think so. A computer system ( I think it's called PSP) monitors attendance and signals to management that an employee has exceeded the limitation. I did go through the return to work process and my manager issues regardless of circumstance. As I have said I don't think you can be punished for the same thing twice.
And it is 10 days loss of attendance whilst you are on a stage 1 that triggers a stage 2 not 7 fyi

[rogersh]

well I can assure you it DOES count, so if you haven't been issued a further stage then its been missed and you've been lucky. look at the wording on a stage 1 and it tells you in no uncertain terms. 14 days or 4 absences in 12 MONTHS. you could go over the 14 days and NOT trigger a further stage 1, IF and only IF, you had say 7 days off whilst YOU were actually serving the stage 1 (6 months) because they can't issue a stage one twice if you are already ''serving a sentence' so to speak, but the 7 days will stay on your record for 12 months and any further absences WILL count once the 6 months have been served. believe me when I tell you it is right.

I understand the 14 day 4 sickness limits but as for being 'missed' I don't think so. A computer system ( I think it's called PSP) monitors attendance and signals to management that an employee has exceeded the limitation. I did go through the return to work process and my manager issues regardless of circumstance. As I have said I don't think you can be punished for the same thing twice.
And it is 10 days loss of attendance whilst you are on a stage 1 that triggers a stage 2 not 7 fyi

Woody, I believe Daveyeff is clear when he says .... "IF, you had "say" 7 days off".... this would not have an immediate effect. Using the example in original post. Your final sentence appears to have misinterpreted the point.

[daveyeff]

thanks rogersh, you are right, he has misunderstood. WOODY,.. I KNOW its 10 days that triggers a stage 2 when you are on a stage 1. the 7 days I referred to was (as rogersh pointed out) an EXAMPLE of the time you can take as an absence 'WHILE SERVING' a stage 1 without triggering a stage 2.. you can have up to 9 days off whilst you are on a stage 1, and NOT trigger a stage 2. what I am also saying is, the 2 days you had as an absence has NOT triggered a further stage, because it must've been WHILE you were actually serving the stage 1 'sentence'. because you CANNOT be issued a further stage 1 while you are already on one!! if you have ANY absence while you are actually SERVING the stage 1, they WILL NOT trigger a stage 2 as long as its only 1 absence of 9 days or less. BUT any absences you have while YOU are one a stage 1 will STILL be on your record for 12 months. so YES you will go down to zero once the 6 months are up, but those 2 days absence you had will be on your record and will be ACTIVATED as soon as you incur ANOTHER absence. fyi. ….please keep this in mind.

[WOODY67]

Ok I misunderstood your statement daveyeff apologies! Just checked my record to be precise, I took 2 days sick over 7 months after my warning was issued, this took me to a total of 17 days in the 12 months prior to my return to work. Again to be clear this was AFTER NOT DURING my 6 months warning period so I still say that GHOSTman will not revert to a stage 1 nor be issued with a new one. GHOSTman please keep us updated on your situation many thanks

[daveyeff]

I know for a certain fact I am right. ….how, cos I was off my stage after the 6 months and then incurred another 3 days absence when I was almost clear giving me a total of 17 days. why? because my previous absence WAS NOT cleared. I don't know how you have got away with it. as I have said. read the 1st stage conditions. its self explanatory. it specifically states 12 MONTHS. its not rocket science. it even tells you are back to zero, after stage 2 period has expired, but it does NOT state this from the stage 1. I have even cleared it with the DOM.

[daveyeff]

just had it confirmed off my area rep also.

[General Mannerheim]

3. Is there a change to the attendance standards? The new approach is focussed on supporting employees in meeting the standards. The attendance standards match the existing current Royal Mail and Parcelforce Worldwide attendance standards. However, the review period for employees on a Review 1 or a Review 2 becomes a fixed six months. This replaces the current rolling period

[daveyeff]

3. Is there a change to the attendance standards? The new approach is focussed on supporting employees in meeting the standards. The attendance standards match the existing current Royal Mail and Parcelforce Worldwide attendance standards. However, the review period for employees on a Review 1 or a Review 2 becomes a fixed six months. This replaces the current rolling period

that's from page 62 of the new attendance procedure, and as it clearly states GM, ….the ''REVIEW PERIOD'' (the stage period ) for employees on a stage 1 or stage 2 becomes a fixed 6 months. so what it is saying is...if you are on a stage 1 or 2, instead of being on this for 12 months as it used to be, in now becomes 6 months. you are then OFF the stage. that in itself is pure and simple. when it used to be 12 months it was harder to get off, because if you had any further absences it could easily progress to a stage 2. so by getting it reduced to 6 months, it became 'safer' for employees, as any further absences would only result in re-triggering the stage 1. it also states on page 45 of the attendance procedure, ...''outcome of the meeting'' ..each case should be treated on its merits, and any mitigating factors the employee has raised in relation to their attendance record must be taken into account, ''ALONG WITH THEIR PREVIOUS ATTENDANCE RECORD AND OVERALL ATTENDANCE PERFORMANCE''. so, to be clear, any previous absences for a stage 1 are kept on record for 12 months and ARE taken into account for further absences.

[daveyeff]

on the case of woody NOT being re-issued a further stage 1 has got nothing whatsoever to do with him serving his 'sentence' after 6 months and coming off the stage. if as he says he has had further absences after coming off the stage, but within the 12 month period, I do not have a clue as to how it has not been applied. 4 absences or 14 days in a 12 month period is the standard for a 1st stage review. absence only becomes redundant on a stage 1 AFTER 12 months. they take all absence in the previous 12 month into account even if they were included in the original stage 1. maybe his manager might have put down ''dealt with'' or even failed to record it, then the PSP would not pick it up, I just don't know. but I was certainly re-issued with mine. our area rep said to me he has dealt with hundreds and hundreds of stages, and stage 1 is where most people slip up because of this simple rule.

[Smith1212]

What if your off for more than 14 days what stage is this when you return

[daveyeff]

What if your off for more than 14 days what stage is this when you return

if you are not on any stages, you would only go up to stage 1, regardless of the length of the absence. but they request you to keep in touch by phone, and face to face at 28 days then 12 weeks. also they can have you considered for IHR after 9 months from date of detriment. (onset of illness/accident)

[CPTNemoUK]

What if your off for more than 14 days what stage is this when you return

if you are not on any stages, you would only go up to stage 1, regardless of the length of the absence. but they request you to keep in touch by phone, and face to face at 28 days then 12 weeks. also they can have you considered for IHR after 9 months from date of detriment. (onset of illness/accident)

My old Dom tried threatening me with IHR after a week with a water infection I told him go ahead. Never heard anything after that

[GHOSTman]

Ok I misunderstood your statement daveyeff apologies! Just checked my record to be precise, I took 2 days sick over 7 months after my warning was issued, this took me to a total of 17 days in the 12 months prior to my return to work. Again to be clear this was AFTER NOT DURING my 6 months warning period so I still say that GHOSTman will not revert to a stage 1 nor be issued with a new one. GHOSTman please keep us updated on your situation many thanks

UPDATE: eventually had my return to work meeting this morning, manager really didn't want to do it, had to ask her 3 times before she agreed it needed to be done. Outcome was the same as yours WOODY67, no mention of reverting back to stage 1, this is despite me having 2 absences in a 12 month period totaling more than 14 days, had 6 months clear between the 2 absences. I don't know if my stage 1 is floating about behind the scenes or what. My next target is to go another 4 /5 months to lose my first absence off my record. Still haven't got a clue how they apply the rules to be honest!