If we lose and 20000/40000 people are made redundant, how do the business choose who goes?

Post by **HTPostman** » 24 Sep 2019, 07:07

Anyone know if you lose your seniority if you leave the business then return at a later date?

Just seems frustrating that I *could* be one of the first on the list if cuts are made, having done 30 rounds at my last office (followed by a number of years doing another job), then 30+ rounds (including lots of rurals) in 11 months at this office with zero complaints or issues.

Whereas someone who started a month before me, has done just a handful of rounds because he has had a lot of complaints against him and has failed specials and tracked could theoretically keep his job as he has more seniority.

I realise RM probably want this kind of employee vs employee making us compete against each other but would just be interesting to know.

Acca Dacca · Post by **Acca Dacca** » 24 Sep 2019, 07:49

HTPostman wrote:Anyone know if you lose your seniority if you leave the business then return at a later date?

Just seems frustrating that I *could* be one of the first on the list if cuts are made, having done 30 rounds at my last office (followed by a number of years doing another job), then 30+ rounds (including lots of rurals) in 11 months at this office with zero complaints or issues.

Whereas someone who started a month before me, has done just a handful of rounds because he has had a lot of complaints against him and has failed specials and tracked could theoretically keep his job as he has more seniority.

I realise RM probably want this kind of employee vs employee making us compete against each other but would just be interesting to know.

Yes you lose it

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 24 Sep 2019, 08:15

Won't a larger chunk of the lower seniority staff in DOs be part-timers?

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 24 Sep 2019, 14:56

SpacePhoenix wrote:Won't a larger chunk of the lower seniority staff in DOs be part-timers?

Of course they are.
It's one of the reasons the business won't go down the compulsory redundancy route.

Last in first out just leaves them with a higher full-time ratio and therefore less efficient.

What they actually plan to do if anyone is paying attention is lose the bulk of these jobs through natural wastage, what they would also like to do is reduce the MTSF terms for voluntary redundancies but that has to be a balance, reduce them too much and you have no volunteers.

Post by **stodgy88** » 24 Sep 2019, 15:13

Hopefully it wont come to this, but what sort of figure would natural wastage be in the timeframe they are looking at.

Jefferson Starfish · Post by **Jefferson Starfish** » 24 Sep 2019, 15:30

stodgy88 wrote:Hopefully it wont come to this, but what sort of figure would natural wastage be in the timeframe they are looking at.

I think a figure of about 5,000 posties per year leave RM anyway.

Post by **stodgy88** » 24 Sep 2019, 15:52

Cheers, what timeframe are they dreaming of ,presume f they need the new hubs,will be a while yet.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 24 Sep 2019, 19:44

stodgy88 wrote:Cheers, what timeframe are they dreaming of ,presume f they need the new hubs,will be a while yet.

It's a 5 year plan.

Post by **Godric** » 28 Sep 2019, 11:44

if 20,000 posties are to go that is more than 1 in every 6 postie or a 5 day week and if it's the 40,000 figure then that is more than 1/3rd or a 4 day week you will be expected to condense 6 days work into 5 or 4 days .... that is a shocking state of affair ... i'm glad i have arthritis in my lower back (after i slipped and went up in the air and landed on my lower back on concrete) among other ailments

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 29 Sep 2019, 16:00

Jefferson Starfish wrote:
stodgy88 wrote:Hopefully it wont come to this, but what sort of figure would natural wastage be in the timeframe they are looking at.
I think a figure of about 5,000 posties per year leave RM anyway.

The last official figure given out by RM was between nine and ten thousand posties leaving in a recent year. This figure was given to be a good figure in that 'natural wastage' at most other companies in the UK is supposedly significantly higher.
This still would leave RM with a shortfall for the initial up to 20,000 job losses from the 'new parcel strategy' and other possible short term cuts.
The second possible lot of 20,000 job cuts from moving to a five day operation, if it is allowed by the regulator next year, could be more problematic to achieve.
I think a lot of offices are short staffed currently plus if the 'new parcel strategy' cannot be stopped there will be a lot more duties required at all the current LAT hubs as they will be delivering all the Tracked items as well parcels above shoe box size. Those offices are going to be really busy!

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 29 Sep 2019, 16:05

Godric wrote:if 20,000 posties are to go that is more than 1 in every 6 postie or a 5 day week and if it's the 40,000 figure then that is more than 1/3rd or a 4 day week you will be expected to condense 6 days work into 5 or 4 days .... that is a shocking state of affair ... i'm glad i have arthritis in my lower back (after i slipped and went up in the air and landed on my lower back on concrete) among other ailments

I agree that when you think about it the 'new parcel strategy' doesn't sound possible to actually achieve. In that sense maybe it will destroy itself before implementation but we can't rely on it just failing. It has to be burnt to the ground - metorthorically speaking of course.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 29 Sep 2019, 16:10

Woody Guthrie wrote:
stodgy88 wrote:Cheers, what timeframe are they dreaming of ,presume f they need the new hubs,will be a while yet.
It's a 5 year plan.

Hmmm. It's stated as a five year plan but as far as I understand the first of the three hubs is already built and partially being used ? If RM have or can borrow some money how long will it take them to construct two more massive metal buildings at two other locations ? If it goes ahead I can see it being up and running for Xmas 2020. If we don't stop it that is.

PS I think it was written somewhere that when questions were asked about trials of the new strategy that he was just going to go ahead with it anyway. Like a mad dog chasing a bone.

maisymoo04 · Post by **maisymoo04** » 29 Sep 2019, 16:24

wacko74 wrote:I think the fairest system for the workforce and most cost effective system for the employer should be a compromise where all and any job losses are to only be via VR... but NOT based on seniority.

Instead those volunteers who would cost the least to pay off should get priority.

(Que the usual frothing of mouths from the 30-40 year guys, with their various money for nothing grandfather rights payments and cushy little duties that haven't been altered ever since they picked them in 1983)

TheTrolleyMan · Post by **TheTrolleyMan** » 30 Sep 2019, 06:00

Chances are it'll be your day off cover that'll be losing their jobs

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 30 Sep 2019, 08:52

Celgar wrote:Hmmm. It's stated as a five year plan but as far as I understand the first of the three hubs is already built and partially being used ? If RM have or can borrow some money how long will it take them to construct two more massive metal buildings at two other locations ? If it goes ahead I can see it being up and running for Xmas 2020. If we don't stop it that is.

Anyone know how long it took from the start of construction of that hub, up to when it was ready for use?