Outrageous sacking of postman demonstrates 'toxic workplace culture

Post by **POSTMAN** » 23 Sep 2019, 09:30

Here is the judgment, all is not what it seems...

Mr_R_Lockyer_v_Royal_Mail_Group_Ltd_2304480-2018_Full.pdf

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 23 Sep 2019, 16:02

I wonder if Mark Baulch thinks they still have a case?

postmanpleb · Post by **postmanpleb** » 23 Sep 2019, 20:01

Surprised no one has mentioned this previously ( although I could be wrong, has been known) if the postie has scanned the item whilst he waited before 1 he would have been ok. I have on a couple of occasions left it late to get to address by 1 but scanned before 1 but got the signature after & had no consequences.

Up the pinks

Newbie001 · Post by **Newbie001** » 23 Sep 2019, 22:07

I think the issue here is the ease with which you can be put on serious warnings. Doesn't take genius to know van unsecured, could be as simple as window not shut properly. Van with no air con, easy mistake unfortunately.Also signing for item, should be nipped in bud but thousands do it and managers turn blind eye when suits, probably deserved.
Special, reminder not exactly noticeable, easy to lose track.
Crux of this for me would be his sick record, bet it's not good. And 2 year serious warnings, how the hell did any union agree to that one.
Union should never have allowed it to get to this stage in first place.

heapsy · Post by **heapsy** » 23 Sep 2019, 22:33

I arrived at 2pm with a special. Got counselled by line manager. The work place coach told me that the issue of black / white labels had been brought up in meetings, as this had been a factor in my case. A genuine error on my part. Best thing to do is scan the bar code, NOT the 2D, before 1pm. He should have done that in the bank. This would have registered within the time limit when the signature went through.

goneaway · Post by **goneaway** » 23 Sep 2019, 22:59

heapsy wrote:Best thing to do is scan the bar code, NOT the 2D, before 1pm. He should have done that in the bank. This would have registered within the time limit when the signature went through.

Why the 1D barcode and not the 2D?

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 24 Sep 2019, 06:49

The big question is does the PDA treat the delivery scan and the capture of the signature as one event and send them both at the same time off to the server

heapsy · Post by **heapsy** » 24 Sep 2019, 14:29

goneaway wrote:
heapsy wrote:Best thing to do is scan the bar code, NOT the 2D, before 1pm. He should have done that in the bank. This would have registered within the time limit when the signature went through.
Why the 1D barcode and not the 2D?

The 2D gives an exact GPS location of where you were when you scan. So, for example, your mate could be driving you to the location and you scan en route. Confirm the delivery on the premises. IF the customer clocked the actual time they signed, and then disputed the delivery time, the delivery staff would be caught out. Not so with the 1D bar code. That is why they keep banging on about 2D scanning. It gives them the ammunition they need to suspend / sack you.
With 1D it would be hard to prove you were not where you said you were. GPS is a give away.

goneaway · Post by **goneaway** » 24 Sep 2019, 18:03

heapsy wrote:The 2D gives an exact GPS location of where you were when you scan. So, for example, your mate could be driving you to the location and you scan en route. Confirm the delivery on the premises. IF the customer clocked the actual time they signed, and then disputed the delivery time, the delivery staff would be caught out. Not so with the 1D bar code. That is why they keep banging on about 2D scanning. It gives them the ammunition they need to suspend / sack you.
With 1D it would be hard to prove you were not where you said you were. GPS is a give away.

I thought your GPS location was still recorded when you scan a 1D barcode and press submit. Maybe I'm wrong then. I thought the only difference between scanning a 1D and a 2D was the extra information (such as the full address on the package) that gets encoded into the 2D barcode gets input into the system, whereas the 1D barcode is missing any address information - but the GPS position would still be captured when pressing "submit".

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 24 Sep 2019, 19:51

Since the 1pm guarantee relates to a delivery attempt not an initial scan of the item I doubt it makes much difference when you initially scan the item.

Proof of delivery relates to when you submit the delivery attempt. If that's after 1pm and the customer complains you're going to have to explain why.

Post by **Chimps_tea_party** » 24 Sep 2019, 21:54

Ok, the posties' past performance has been found wanting, but how was he to know how long the queue might be on any given day?

Pompey Boy · Post by **Pompey Boy** » 25 Sep 2019, 00:09

SpacePhoenix wrote:The big question is does the PDA treat the delivery scan and the capture of the signature as one event and send them both at the same time off to the server

Someone getting the point

Mr Rush · Post by **Mr Rush** » 25 Sep 2019, 17:03

SpacePhoenix wrote:The big question is does the PDA treat the delivery scan and the capture of the signature as one event and send them both at the same time off to the server

I've had a PDA crash just after putting a tracked through a letterbox. With no way to rescan the barcode I reported it to my LM who told me it wouldn't show as a failure as the initial scan goes through first and then delivery confirmation goes seperately. Specials might be processed the same way, but then you hear conflicting stories - nobody seems to know if the PDA software was or was not coded to understand the difference between standard specials and Saturday Guaranteed after 1PM on a Saturday. I suspect Royal Mail likes keeping OPGs in a state of fear and uncertainty.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 25 Sep 2019, 19:57

Mr Rush wrote: nobody seems to know if the PDA software was or was not coded to understand the difference between standard specials and Saturday Guaranteed after 1PM on a Saturday. I suspect Royal Mail likes keeping OPGs in a state of fear and uncertainty.

The system treats all RM specials the same (09:00 or 13:00) irrespective of whether it's a Saturday or not

heapsy · Post by **heapsy** » 25 Sep 2019, 23:27

goneaway wrote:
heapsy wrote:The 2D gives an exact GPS location of where you were when you scan. So, for example, your mate could be driving you to the location and you scan en route. Confirm the delivery on the premises. IF the customer clocked the actual time they signed, and then disputed the delivery time, the delivery staff would be caught out. Not so with the 1D bar code. That is why they keep banging on about 2D scanning. It gives them the ammunition they need to suspend / sack you.
With 1D it would be hard to prove you were not where you said you were. GPS is a give away.
I thought your GPS location was still recorded when you scan a 1D barcode and press submit. Maybe I'm wrong then. I thought the only difference between scanning a 1D and a 2D was the extra information (such as the full address on the package) that gets encoded into the 2D barcode gets input into the system, whereas the 1D barcode is missing any address information - but the GPS position would still be captured when pressing "submit".

In the callers office they have a program / app on the computer. Sorry, don't know what it's called. They can bring up an exact GPS location when you scan the 2D. THAT is why they have been so keen on people using it. There is a target figure displayed somewhere on your office wall. However, it isn't ALL bad. If you haven't done anything wrong, it can work in your favour. I have known of cases where customers have argued they didn't receive items, only for staff in the callers office to prove them wrong with this information, working in support of the delivery person.