Meal breaks

[SpacePhoenix]

The WTD doesn't apply to anyone working under a 6 hour day, therefore the break for these people can be scheduled at the start or end of the duty.

But if it's at the start or end of the duty, higher up will just see it as easy pickings for removing hours from an office

So you agree that 20 minutes could be taken on completion of the last loop of delivery, as I'm sure you know that is not the end of duty? There is a drive back to the office, booking in of parcels, kill offs etc still to do.

It would have to be taken once back at the office otherwise higher up will see someone not in the office whose not delivering mail for 20mins and deem that to be time that can be removed from the office

[Woody Guthrie]

How many times do you need to be told the same thing SP?
It doesn't matter when you schedule meal relief, it can't be removed from the duty scheduler. It's a fixed cost.

The "higher ups" don't resource offices on a whim, that's done using tools and figures generated by industrial engineers.

What they are trying to do with the PDA actuals is use individual data to resource indoor workload.

If a duty is averaging a 5hr delivery from leaving the DO to returning they'll add the scheduled meal relief to that, subtract it from your daily duty hours and that leaves your individual potential indoor workload.

It has very little to do with finishing times and far more to do with accurate delivery span measurement.

[SpacePhoenix]

How many times do you need to be told the same thing SP?
It doesn't matter when you schedule meal relief, it can't be removed from the duty scheduler. It's a fixed cost.

The "higher ups" don't resource offices on a whim, that's done using tools and figures generated by industrial engineers.

What they are trying to do with the PDA actuals is use individual data to resource indoor workload.

If a duty is averaging a 5hr delivery from leaving the DO to returning they'll add the scheduled meal relief to that, subtract it from your daily duty hours and that leaves your individual potential indoor workload.

It has very little to do with finishing times and far more to do with accurate delivery span measurement.

Resourcing is done to budget, plain and simple, has been for a good few years now

[Postie45]

but what is budget based on ?

[SpacePhoenix]

but what is budget based on ?

It's supposed to be based on the trend for the previous years but I've got my doubts that it is. Don't know about the managers in DOs but in MCs they have to account for every last hour that they use, including when one manager borrows staff from another manager. It's only a matter of time before RM bring in performance standards for every task both in MCs and DOs

[Rumple]

The WTD doesn't apply to anyone working under a 6 hour day, therefore the break for these people can be scheduled at the start or end of the duty.

But if it's at the start or end of the duty, higher up will just see it as easy pickings for removing hours from an office

So you agree that 20 minutes could be taken on completion of the last loop of delivery, as I'm sure you know that is not the end of duty? There is a drive back to the office, booking in of parcels, kill offs etc still to do.

It would have to be taken once back at the office otherwise higher up will see someone not in the office whose not delivering mail for 20mins and deem that to be time that can be removed from the office

Don't talk wet. I've been taking my second 20 minute meal relief on delivery for years (not "back at the office"), in the same place and at roughly the same time. Nothing has ever been questioned "higher up." because im not doing anything wrong.
Your assuming and scaremongering.

[SpacePhoenix]

The WTD doesn't apply to anyone working under a 6 hour day, therefore the break for these people can be scheduled at the start or end of the duty.

But if it's at the start or end of the duty, higher up will just see it as easy pickings for removing hours from an office

So you agree that 20 minutes could be taken on completion of the last loop of delivery, as I'm sure you know that is not the end of duty? There is a drive back to the office, booking in of parcels, kill offs etc still to do.

It would have to be taken once back at the office otherwise higher up will see someone not in the office whose not delivering mail for 20mins and deem that to be time that can be removed from the office

Don't talk wet. I've been taking my second 20 minute meal relief on delivery for years (not "back at the office"), in the same place and at roughly the same time. Nothing has ever been questioned "higher up." because im not doing anything wrong.
Your assuming and scaremongering.

It's only a matter of time before they do start questioning, higher up make lower down managers account for all time used now. if the 35hr week does come in, it's going to be an average of 7hr days so break entitlements will drop down to 30mins so there's probably a good chance then that they'll insist on it being taken before you head out onto delivery

[work]

The WTD doesn't apply to anyone working under a 6 hour day, therefore the break for these people can be scheduled at the start or end of the duty.

But if it's at the start or end of the duty, higher up will just see it as easy pickings for removing hours from an office

So you agree that 20 minutes could be taken on completion of the last loop of delivery, as I'm sure you know that is not the end of duty? There is a drive back to the office, booking in of parcels, kill offs etc still to do.

It would have to be taken once back at the office otherwise higher up will see someone not in the office whose not delivering mail for 20mins and deem that to be time that can be removed from the office

Don't talk wet. I've been taking my second 20 minute meal relief on delivery for years (not "back at the office"), in the same place and at roughly the same time. Nothing has ever been questioned "higher up." because im not doing anything wrong.
Your assuming and scaremongering.

It's only a matter of time before they do start questioning, higher up make lower down managers account for all time used now. if the 35hr week does come in, it's going to be an average of 7hr days so break entitlements will drop down to 30mins so there's probably a good chance then that they'll insist on it being taken before you head out onto delivery

What complete and utter 'dog-toffee' fella/lass...As a part-timer starting at 0830 what good is a 30 mins break at 0900 during xmas when one could feasibly be out for 6 more hours+??? A meal relief should be negotiable for both van share partners as just that; a chance to get some energy inside and a welfare break; away from workplace i.e streets/weather/customers etc.

[Rumple]

The WTD doesn't apply to anyone working under a 6 hour day, therefore the break for these people can be scheduled at the start or end of the duty.

But if it's at the start or end of the duty, higher up will just see it as easy pickings for removing hours from an office

So you agree that 20 minutes could be taken on completion of the last loop of delivery, as I'm sure you know that is not the end of duty? There is a drive back to the office, booking in of parcels, kill offs etc still to do.

It would have to be taken once back at the office otherwise higher up will see someone not in the office whose not delivering mail for 20mins and deem that to be time that can be removed from the office

Don't talk wet. I've been taking my second 20 minute meal relief on delivery for years (not "back at the office"), in the same place and at roughly the same time. Nothing has ever been questioned "higher up." because im not doing anything wrong.
Your assuming and scaremongering.

It's only a matter of time before they do start questioning, higher up make lower down managers account for all time used now.

Questioning what? Why is a postman taking his break? Stop scaremongering.

[SpacePhoenix]

The WTD doesn't apply to anyone working under a 6 hour day, therefore the break for these people can be scheduled at the start or end of the duty.

But if it's at the start or end of the duty, higher up will just see it as easy pickings for removing hours from an office

So you agree that 20 minutes could be taken on completion of the last loop of delivery, as I'm sure you know that is not the end of duty? There is a drive back to the office, booking in of parcels, kill offs etc still to do.

It would have to be taken once back at the office otherwise higher up will see someone not in the office whose not delivering mail for 20mins and deem that to be time that can be removed from the office

Don't talk wet. I've been taking my second 20 minute meal relief on delivery for years (not "back at the office"), in the same place and at roughly the same time. Nothing has ever been questioned "higher up." because im not doing anything wrong.
Your assuming and scaremongering.

It's only a matter of time before they do start questioning, higher up make lower down managers account for all time used now. if the 35hr week does come in, it's going to be an average of 7hr days so break entitlements will drop down to 30mins so there's probably a good chance then that they'll insist on it being taken before you head out onto delivery

What complete and utter 'dog-toffee' fella/lass...As a part-timer starting at 0830 what good is a 30 mins break at 0900 during xmas when one could feasibly be out for 6 more hours+??? A meal relief should be negotiable for both van share partners as just that; a chance to get some energy inside and a welfare break; away from workplace i.e streets/weather/customers etc.

If your out on delivery for more than 6hrs why don't you cut off?

[Rumple]

The WTD doesn't apply to anyone working under a 6 hour day, therefore the break for these people can be scheduled at the start or end of the duty.

But if it's at the start or end of the duty, higher up will just see it as easy pickings for removing hours from an office

So you agree that 20 minutes could be taken on completion of the last loop of delivery, as I'm sure you know that is not the end of duty? There is a drive back to the office, booking in of parcels, kill offs etc still to do.

It would have to be taken once back at the office otherwise higher up will see someone not in the office whose not delivering mail for 20mins and deem that to be time that can be removed from the office

Don't talk wet. I've been taking my second 20 minute meal relief on delivery for years (not "back at the office"), in the same place and at roughly the same time. Nothing has ever been questioned "higher up." because im not doing anything wrong.
Your assuming and scaremongering.

It's only a matter of time before they do start questioning, higher up make lower down managers account for all time used now. if the 35hr week does come in, it's going to be an average of 7hr days so break entitlements will drop down to 30mins so there's probably a good chance then that they'll insist on it being taken before you head out onto delivery

What complete and utter 'dog-toffee' fella/lass...As a part-timer starting at 0830 what good is a 30 mins break at 0900 during xmas when one could feasibly be out for 6 more hours+??? A meal relief should be negotiable for both van share partners as just that; a chance to get some energy inside and a welfare break; away from workplace i.e streets/weather/customers etc.

If your out on delivery for more than 6hrs why don't you cut off?

They may want the overtime.
Me personally, I am out on delivery for between 4 and 5 hours. I take a 20 minute break whilst out on delivery, every day.

[SpacePhoenix]

There's only two ways that RM can make sure that all DO staff take their proper breaks:

1) Monitor them via real-time use of PDA actuals, making sure they stop for the proper amount of time at a predetermined location and/or time
2) Make them take all their break before they go out on delivery

It's been said in another thread that DO staff don't always take their PDA with them everywhere when out on delivery which rules out option 1 as being reliable meaning that option 2 is the only reliable method. It would be interesting to know what % of delivery staff don't take any break once out on delivery or don't take any break at all

[clashcityrocker]

Personally I hate taking a break out on delivery.
My muscles start seizing up. It is agony starting up again.
Sometimes I think I would be better off having a 20 minute jog while my partner takes a break.......

[Rumple]

There's only two ways that RM can make sure that all DO staff take their proper breaks:

1) Monitor them via real-time use of PDA actuals, making sure they stop for the proper amount of time at a predetermined location and/or time
2) Make them take all their break before they go out on delivery

It's been said in another thread that DO staff don't always take their PDA with them everywhere when out on delivery which rules out option 1 as being reliable meaning that option 2 is the only reliable method. It would be interesting to know what % of delivery staff don't take any break once out on delivery or don't take any break at all

You've been inconsistent with your "facts" on this.
Delivery staff do not have to take all their meal allowance before going on delivery.
if delivery staff want or need to take their second 20 minute break whilst out on delivery, then that is perfectly fine.
I do that every day, and on the strength of that "higher up" have not decided that 20 minutes can be taken out of the office budget per day.
If delivery staff have a 3pm finish time and do not take their 2nd 20 minute break they may finish at 2.40pm.
Please stop scaremongering delivery staff into not taking their break entitlement.

[SpacePhoenix]

There's only two ways that RM can make sure that all DO staff take their proper breaks:

1) Monitor them via real-time use of PDA actuals, making sure they stop for the proper amount of time at a predetermined location and/or time
2) Make them take all their break before they go out on delivery

It's been said in another thread that DO staff don't always take their PDA with them everywhere when out on delivery which rules out option 1 as being reliable meaning that option 2 is the only reliable method. It would be interesting to know what % of delivery staff don't take any break once out on delivery or don't take any break at all

You've been inconsistent with your "facts" on this.
Delivery staff do not have to take all their meal allowance before going on delivery.
if delivery staff want or need to take their second 20 minute break whilst out on delivery, then that is perfectly fine.
I do that every day, and on the strength of that "higher up" have not decided that 20 minutes can be taken out of the office budget per day.
If delivery staff have a 3pm finish time and do not take their 2nd 20 minute break they may finish at 2.40pm.
Please stop scaremongering delivery staff into not taking their break entitlement.

Finishing 20mins before the official finish time is still 20mins that higher up will take out of the office. By rights the DOM should keep them in the DO until their official finish time. The ones that finish before their offical start time are part of the problem - you are aware that job and finish went along time ago, with the Pay & Mod agreement?

How do higher up know if someone is on their break or hasn't taken their PDA with them for a section of their walk? Answer, they can't know which way it is