Meal breaks

[SpacePhoenix]

I will just stop for 20 mins after my last loop

Bad idea, on the PDA actuals they'll see that 20mins as either 20mins that can be removed from the office or 20mins extra work they can give you

No they won't. They will see it as someone taking 20 minutes break which they are fully entitled to do.

I somehow don't think that argument will carry any weight with higher up

Surely your not suggesting that staff aren't entitled to take a 20 minute break on completion of their last loop.
You are allowed to take a 40 minute break or 2 x 20 minute breaks. It's not an argument, it's a fact.

Higher up will just see 20mins worth of time that could be used to do more work, they're probably not going to give a s**t that it's someone taking their break

[Pikeman180]

meal breaks.PNG

So on a shared van duty where there is a full-timer and a part-timer, a part-timer is to take his full 30 mins in one go, whereas the full-timer has 2 x 20mins. Someone will be waiting around somewhere out on round?

[clashcityrocker]

meal breaks.PNG

So on a shared van duty where there is a full-timer and a part-timer, a part-timer is to take his full 30 mins in one go, whereas the full-timer has 2 x 20mins. Someone will be waiting around somewhere out on round?

It says probable pattern.
The part timer has no legal entitlement to a break so the timing of their break can be any time.
I worked in one office where the part timers started at 9.15, and their meal relief was 9.15 to 9.45.
The office I currently work in splits the p/t meal relief so 10 minutes prior to dispatch (while the full timer takes 20) and the final 20 together.

[rogersh]

meal breaks.PNG

So on a shared van duty where there is a full-timer and a part-timer, a part-timer is to take his full 30 mins in one go, whereas the full-timer has 2 x 20mins. Someone will be waiting around somewhere out on round?

The part timer has no legal entitlement to a break so the timing of their break can be any time.

Clash I do not understand this part of your post - can you clarify

[clashcityrocker]

Legally you are only entitled to a break if you work more than 6 hours. (20 minutes and it doesn't have to be paid)
If your working day is less than that, there is no legal requirement to provide a break and no legal requirement to schedule it somewhere in the middle of the day.

[woofwoof]

Breaks at the end

[rogersh]

Legally you are only entitled to a break if you work more than 6 hours. (20 minutes and it doesn't have to be paid)
If your working day is less than that, there is no legal requirement to provide a break and no legal requirement to schedule it somewhere in the middle of the day.

The way forward agreement states:
"Breaks at the beginning and end of attendance -
Where an attendance is provided with more than one break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or the end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance."

So the single break cannot be taken at "any time" & the legal entitlement does not apply in regard to the fact we have our own agreement applicable to RM.

Edit
WoofWoof has confirmed while I posted

[clashcityrocker]

I don't understand what you are saying......

We are being told that no matter what the Way Forward states, we can not put any of our break at the end of the duty as the PDA outdoor actuals flag it up as paid hours that are not being worked.

[rogersh]

All I am saying is that one example of someone working between 5-7 hour day would be entitled to a 30 minute meal break. According to the way forward agreement the probable pattern would be 30 minutes as one break - the agreement says a single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or the end of the attendance.

[clashcityrocker]

Probable pattern means nothing.
The Way Forward is 19 years old and was made before part time and full time staff were paired together on duties.

The break cannot be scheduled at the start or end of the duty to conform to the Working Time Directive.
The WTD doesn't apply to anyone working under a 6 hour day, therefore the break for these people can be scheduled at the start or end of the duty.

[SpacePhoenix]

The WTD doesn't apply to anyone working under a 6 hour day, therefore the break for these people can be scheduled at the start or end of the duty.

But if it's at the start or end of the duty, higher up will just see it as easy pickings for removing hours from an office

[rogersh]

Probable pattern means nothing.
The Way Forward is 19 years old and was made before part time and full time staff were paired together on duties.

The break cannot be scheduled at the start or end of the duty to conform to the Working Time Directive.
The WTD doesn't apply to anyone working under a 6 hour day, therefore the break for these people can be scheduled at the start or end of the duty.

The way forward agreement may be old but it has been referred to in a Q&A on 7th May 2018 Simon Barker U.K. Processing Operations Director stated;
“In the way forward agreement we have commitments of between 5 & 7 hours people get 30 minutes & then between 7 & 8.59 minutes they get 40 minutes breaks and that will continue to be honoured."
If the agreement has not been superseded then it is still valid.
Note; The working time regs are 1998.

[clashcityrocker]

And they are being honoured.
The question is how they are scheduled with the full time/part time pairings and the use of PDA actuals.

[Rumple]

The WTD doesn't apply to anyone working under a 6 hour day, therefore the break for these people can be scheduled at the start or end of the duty.

But if it's at the start or end of the duty, higher up will just see it as easy pickings for removing hours from an office

So you agree that 20 minutes could be taken on completion of the last loop of delivery, as I'm sure you know that is not the end of duty? There is a drive back to the office, booking in of parcels, kill offs etc still to do.

[Postie45]

were 30 indoors and 10 outdoors

none allowed at the end of duty

Jeez, just 10 mins for what could be a 6+hr span.

i think one of the things the union should address is holding RM more responsible for toilet break facilities especially on 4,5 hour + deliveries, this is an unreasonable amount of time without a specified toilet facility. I know from personal experience most deliveries in my office do not have anything outlined for this, therefore it would seem to be reasonable for staff to return to the office to use the Royal Mail facilities.
Being asked to pee in a bottle or in a bush would not be reasonable although ive seen it mentioned off the record by a manager, whether male or female its not appropriate to have to do this.