CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 19 Jul 2019, 19:18

Labour’s still a broad church, RTP, it’s just that for now, the left controls the party, not the centre. Any MP willing to fight for a Labour government is welcome - unfortunately most of the Parliamentary Labour Party don’t seem very invested in doing that, and so it should be right that members of constituency Labour parties have the opportunity to challenge them on this. How many Labour MPs have been deselected under Corbyn so far though? None, though if it happens said MPs can easily show how popular they are with the wider public by standing as independents.

Jews aren’t welcome anymore? You’d best tell Jon Lansman, James Schneider and the many brilliant left wing Jewish Labour activists working hard to beat the Tories when the opportunity next arises (which isn’t whenever Corbyn shows some bloody leadership, as all the smacked arses on here would have us believe).

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 19 Jul 2019, 19:18

"Biggest swing to Labour etc etc" is the sort of stats-mangling indulged in by the losing politicians the day after polling day. Meaningless, other than a sop to the losing team.
Here's the reality of that election-

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 40231.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

History doesn't remember the losers.

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 19 Jul 2019, 19:21

So tell me how Owen Smith (lol, I’m gone here) would’ve done better, when literally two years earlier centrist Labour handed the Tories their first majority in over twenty years.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 19 Jul 2019, 20:46

26l34 wrote:So tell me how Owen Smith (lol, I’m gone here) would’ve done better, when literally two years earlier centrist Labour handed the Tories their first majority in over twenty years.

It wasn't centrist policy that handed the Tories that majority, if anything the public perception of Ed Miliband ( although not particularly accurate) was that he was very much to the left of the party.

What did for the Labour party in 2015 and this is pretty much accepted by all was the "Scottish double tap". The "coalition against independence " between the Tories and Labour known as "Better Together" was a big mistake which resulted in the party being routed north of the border in 2015, losing that many seats in Scotland was almost a fatal blow in itself but the coup de grace was that it also provided a boogeyman for the right wing press , the idea of the SNP holding the Labour party to ransom in a coalition government.

The centrists didn't lose the 2015 election, underestimating the damage alligning yourself with the Tories in Scotland would have did, coupled with the fear in England that Scotland and particularly the SNP would hold the balance of power in a coalition government.

Please try to read my comments with an open mind they are not an attempt to influence or change minds , they are simply an alternative opinion.

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 19 Jul 2019, 20:50

Ah ok, so centrists don’t lose elections, they’re just fatally undermined by outside forces, like the media, who are famously tolerant of socialists and provide a level playing field on which the left fails on its own terms, lol

Who chose to share a platform in Scotland with the Tories btw? Was it, possibly, the centrists? But they shouldn’t be expected to own that particular screw up and its consequences, but Corbyn alone is presumably responsible for Labour’s inability to win those Scottish seats back? OK.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 19 Jul 2019, 23:04

Not that I particularly like JC or think he would be a good PM but it should be obvious to everyone that the party is just using any & every reason or excuse under the sun to try and remove him. The labour party is not anti-Semitic. They just disagree with the existence of the state of Israel which is separate to the Jewish faith & more to do with colonialism and how the middle east was divided up after WW II.

Danelectro · Post by **Danelectro** » 19 Jul 2019, 23:30

26l34 wrote:Ah ok, so centrists don’t lose elections, they’re just fatally undermined by outside forces, like the media, who are famously tolerant of socialists and provide a level playing field on which the left fails on its own terms, lol

Who chose to share a platform in Scotland with the Tories btw? Was it, possibly, the centrists? But they shouldn’t be expected to own that particular screw up and its consequences, but Corbyn alone is presumably responsible for Labour’s inability to win those Scottish seats back? OK.

Correct and that's why Chukka Ummuna is not sending his party back to their constituencies to prepare for government

but they will keep trying and there's plenty of filthy lucre for the next attempt at repackaging the same snake oil while accusing everyone and their uncle of 'turning back the clock'.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 19 Jul 2019, 23:52

Celgar wrote: The labour party is not anti-Semitic. They just disagree with the existence of the state of Israel which is separate to the Jewish faith & more to do with colonialism and how the middle east was divided up after WW II.

No, it's not about Israel.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... 013-speech" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Corbyn supporters/apologists also use that "it's about Israel and it's actions, not about anti-Semitism" until Corbyn makes a comment defining British Jews "as not understanding English irony etc etc" and "needing education" which "perhaps we can help them with". The last comment sounds like it could be attributable to Himmler or Goebbels.
Claim the same nonsense about any BAME people and then say it's not a ridiculous, idiotic and derogatory generalisation.
Published in the Corbyn-supporting Guardian too.

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 20 Jul 2019, 03:05

“The Corbyn supporting Guardian”, ahahaha. Stop it mate this is too funny.

Mind you that’s not as funny as that guy thinking Hilary Benn could be a better leader - remember what the media did to Miliband and his dad? It’d be that sh*t on steroids.

BAME people are being deported for spurious reasons, denied benefits, and healthcare, I’m really not sure doing hierarchies of racism is a hill you want to die on.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 20 Jul 2019, 06:08

Who chose to share a platform in Scotland with the Tories btw? Was it, possibly, the centrists?

No...It was the Labour party.
You constantly bleat on that you can't blame JC and the left of the party for every bad decision Labour make and then you constantly blame these "centrists" for every bad decision Labour made before (and sometimes after) JC became leader. At least have some consistency.

Ed Miliband was no raving red despite what the press would have you believe but neither could he be described a "centrist" unless you're just trying disavow his mistakes. It was after all predominantly the left of the party who chose him over his brother or was that just another "centrist" conspiracy?

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 20 Jul 2019, 06:25

Any lack of consistency here belongs to yourself. Apply the same standards to Corbyn’s predecessors as you do to him and they absolutely have to own the hollowing out of the Labour vote, especially in Scotland which, as you rightly pointed out, led to an abject defeat in 2015.

Miliband himself I’d describe as soft left but he attempted to triangulate on a number of issues, most appallingly on immigration but also austerity, to appease the Labour right - the platform (or should that be Edstone?) the party stood on was absolutely a centrist one. The attacks on him were awful and also blow the idea that Labour just needs to find a young, baggage-free face to annihilate the Tories out the water.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 20 Jul 2019, 06:30

The labour party is not anti-Semitic. They just disagree with the existence of the state of Israel

This comment in itself shows how anti-semitism has been allowed to change the narrative, the official Labour party position is that it believes in a two state solution to the Israeli-Palestine conflict but this "It's not the Jewish people, it's the country itself" line has warped that into "they just disagree with the existence of the state of Isreal".

Do you understand how powerful that message is?
Do you understand it's exactly what the Israeli government stand accused of saying to the Palestinians?
Can you not smell the rank hypocrisy?

What country do we get to disagree with the existence of next?
How about Northern Ireland?

Danelectro · Post by **Danelectro** » 20 Jul 2019, 07:35

Woody Guthrie wrote:
The labour party is not anti-Semitic. They just disagree with the existence of the state of Israel
This comment in itself shows how anti-semitism has been allowed to change the narrative, the official Labour party position is that it believes in a two state solution to the Israeli-Palestine conflict but this "It's not the Jewish people, it's the country itself" line has warped that into "they just disagree with the existence of the state of Isreal".

Do you understand how powerful that message is?
Do you understand it's exactly what the Israeli government stand accused of saying to the Palestinians?
Can you not smell the rank hypocrisy?

What country do we get to disagree with the existence of next?
How about Northern Ireland?

Hahaha what a fud

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 20 Jul 2019, 09:00

Quality Dan.
I think I'm done with this ridiculous thread.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 20 Jul 2019, 10:12

26l34 wrote:“The organisation that negotiates drug pricing on behalf of pharmacies told BBC Radio 5 Live's Wake up to Money that Brexit is already affecting the supply and price of some key generic drugs.
“In response to the BBC Radio 5 Live story, there have been tweets from GPs, pharmacists and patients pointing to difficulties obtaining certain drugs.
“There is clearly a feeling that these problems go beyond the occasional supply issues seen in the system.”
.

Hmm, seems like Project Fear needs to choose it's "facts" a little more carefully-
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A ... LP0Eb9Pfi8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After all, France have no intentions of leaving the EU AFAIK?