CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Ddarko85 · Post by **Ddarko85** » 17 Jul 2019, 19:51

Good lord, there is some rhetoric in this thread.

Referendums are an awful way to make decisions.

I also have to head scratch at some of the bashing labour gets - they haven’t been in government for 10 years. And whilst I don’t agree with some things Corbyn says, the current Conservative party is full of pythons that have done real damage to this country.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 17 Jul 2019, 20:06

Marshamp11 wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:A little research into military history wouldn't go amiss either.
We lost the battle but won the war I believe. But thats not the point the point is regardless of odds we still had the b%$#&ocks to give it a go.

Lost the engagement, lost the battle, and the alliance won the war but we were a minor player after the Turks and French. Bloody foreigners, and Europeans stealing our glory and never getting mentioned in the films.

Danelectro · Post by **Danelectro** » 17 Jul 2019, 20:32

26l34 wrote:As I’ve said before in this thread, I understand well the left wing case against the EU. The theory is fine, but the reality is we have a right wing party in power and most of the big institutions in this country - the banks, the media, most MPs and the Lords, probably the civil service, definitely the armed forces - would prefer that didn’t change any time soon. Lexit’s an even bigger fantasy than Brexit - whatever deals are done after we leave won’t be doing anything to strengthen workers’ rights, protect the environment, end profiteering in the public sector, etc.

Not sure what reality your talking of as the pollsters seem to be saying that Labour can't win a GE if they campaign on a remain ticket so the big scary right wing government threat remains in either scenario though if GE held after Brexit that changes.

I do a fair bit of travelling within the EU and don't detect the love for the EU that those who argue for remain on here seem to have,the French and Belgians I speak to seem to be getting wise to the fact that the Eurozone as predicted has caused divergence and has handed Germany all the power within the currency union which has dismayed the French who thought the reverse would be the case but that cats out the bag now and until resolved will drive more social unrest within Europe..So to pretend that Brexit is some isolated reaction because we have a uniquely mad cap bunch of arseholes in charge is far from the truth.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 17 Jul 2019, 21:05

So to pretend that Brexit is some isolated reaction because we have a uniquely mad cap bunch of arseholes in charge is far from the truth.

It is by definition an isolated reaction Dan. We're the only member of the EU that has decided to leave, A few anecdotes from your travels around Europe don't make any difference to that. I think the most dangerous pro-Brexit supporters are those who are focused on the destruction of the EU to feed their own political dogma. I have to say unfortunately that's how you come across.

People like that have no interest in the potential dangers faced by the UK, it's nothing more than an attempted but ultimately futile power grab. If they're not careful those kind of "socialists " could be remembered in history as the enablers of the right. That's certainly how a great deal of people see Jeremy Corbyn.

Danelectro · Post by **Danelectro** » 17 Jul 2019, 21:50

Well nobody can question that world trade deals are EU Rasin D'etre.Negotiating a progressive future for our children and the planet.Touche! Juncker Bravo! EU

#AmazonRainforest worth cheaper beef prices?
A new trade deal between the EU and Mercosur could make that nightmare a reality. #EUMercosur
https://t.co/D54ozgJs5w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EU's green trade promises face rainforest reality https://t.co/SQFqGDLa6T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; #EUMercosur

A motion voted by the Irish parliament condemned the #EUMercosur trade agreement, as “a bad deal for Ireland and for the planet”
https://t.co/oXQ6Y4EACm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; https://t.co/B44viMUMkl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brussels | Farmers, Environmentalists tackle EU-Mercosur Deal
#EUMercosur #Mercosur
https://t.co/UMv6ccQHqo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; https://t.co/xFP8DEeJnQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Danelectro · Post by **Danelectro** » 18 Jul 2019, 06:31

Woody Guthrie wrote:
So to pretend that Brexit is some isolated reaction because we have a uniquely mad cap bunch of arseholes in charge is far from the truth.
It is by definition an isolated reaction Dan. We're the only member of the EU that has decided to leave, A few anecdotes from your travels around Europe don't make any difference to that. I think the most dangerous pro-Brexit supporters are those who are focused on the destruction of the EU to feed their own political dogma. I have to say unfortunately that's how you come across.

People like that have no interest in the potential dangers faced by the UK, it's nothing more than an attempted but ultimately futile power grab. If they're not careful those kind of "socialists " could be remembered in history as the enablers of the right. That's certainly how a great deal of people see Jeremy Corbyn.

There you go again handing out put me downs like Tom Watson at a bar mitzvah and if in doubt blame the jam maker.

To put social unrest in France down to anecdotes when Macron has the lowest approval rating of any French President and protests which have no end in sight and have resulted in 20 deaths, thousands beaten to a pulp including children and the disabled just shows how desperate you are to not contcede one objective point and to point out that any economist worth their salt would state this is due to the pressures of a single currency within a supranational organisation is not dangerous but understanding the reasons why this is happening.

#Yellow #Vests banned in #Bourges center, heart of #France
https://t.co/9O5OtPypkX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; https://t.co/9vCQu68xj7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 18 Jul 2019, 14:17

People do not flock to socialism during periods of chaos Dan, they seek out structure and rules and authoritarian government, wishing to bring down the EU and make political gain from the resultant chaos is a dangerous game for the left, history shows us that and Jeremy Corbyn should be very careful which steps he takes next.

Despite social unrest throughout Europe and the US, in fact all over the globe it is the right who are making the gains, Why is that Dan or is that just down to a mainstream media conspiracy?

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 18 Jul 2019, 15:28

Corbyn’s repeatedly said the party will never support a no deal exit, would support remain in an in or out referendum (unlike the B*llocks to Brexit party aka the Lib Dems who last I saw were proposing to put no deal on the ballot) and would offer remain vs its own deal in the event of it winning a general election, Labour’s doing all it can, yet again the only people responsible for this and any future chaos are the Tories, anyone that sees Corbyn as a hard right enabler is an idiot.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 18 Jul 2019, 16:19

An ineffective left is always an enabler of the right. Calling people idiots for pointing out that blatantly obvious fact doesn't change its validity.

Corbyn is undeniably pro-Brexit and has been forced only recently by the unions to clarify the party's position not his own personal position, his lack of meaningful engagement and leadership during the original referendum certainly helped to enable a leave result.

The party is mired in accusations of anti-semitism because of his unwillingness to take appropriate action, riddled with division because what was once a broad church has been allowed to fracture into factions and the lack of a clear policy over Brexit has left Labour supporters confused.

We have in power probably the weakest Conservative government in history who are looking for their 3rd leader in 5 years and yet still it looks unlikely Labour could win a General Election. That is quite frankly embarrassing.

If this is the once great Labour party doing "all it can" we really are up s**t creek.

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 18 Jul 2019, 16:51

It’s not the left that’s ineffective, as I said the other day the reason the centre lost control of Labour was its complete inability to persuade people it had any purpose. And it spent years trying to muscle in on the right’s terrain on issues to do with race and immigration (as I highlighted last week) - how’s that worked out?

Labour’s currently polling in the high 20s, not much less than the centre got last time it ran the party, and that was in a two not four horse race.

You’re always bleating on about leadership, like the bore I had a season ticket next to who used to just bark ‘sort it out’ mindlessly at our club’s manager, you slate others for not having any concrete ideas but you’ve zero yourself.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 18 Jul 2019, 17:16

Woody Guthrie wrote:
Blind optimism is just stupidity in a posh frock pete, the guys who wanted out better come up with something more substantial soon, the clock is ticking.

I think stupidity would resemble a posh blue frock with 12 stars on it then. And why should I come up with anything substantial soon?? The default position is still to leave on the 31st October. If anything, the clock is ticking for Remain MPs who are still appear to be doing everything they can to try and stop Brexit from happening. The latest tactic is to try and block the PM from suspending Parliament through a no-deal Brexit.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 18 Jul 2019, 17:47

The latest tactic is to try and block the PM from suspending Parliament through a no-deal Brexit.

Are you even aware what prorouge means?
Are you aware what a parliamentary democracy is?
If Boris were to prorouge parliament (not that even he would be that stupid) there would be absolutely no point in anyone ever voting in a General Election again, we might as well just elect an emperor and be done with it. What some people are prepared to accept to get their own way should terrify both those on the left and those on the right.

This is exactly what an ineffective opposition gets you.
This thread is getting far too Orwellian nightmare for me pete , good luck with a government that no longer feels the need to have a majority to rule. All you need is a PM who can shut down parliament every time he wants to change something. That's a wonderful precedent to set.

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 18 Jul 2019, 18:03

Of course, Boris Johnson wanting to prorogue parliament is Jeremy Corbyn’s fault, lol

If Jeromby Crabin got an EU flag tattooed on his head the Tories wouldn’t be such self serving fools, please respect my sensible, moderate opinions

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 18 Jul 2019, 19:29

Of course, Boris Johnson wanting to prorogue parliament is Jeremy Corbyn’s fault, lol

Why do we still have a Tory government after almost a decade of austerity, chaos, ineptitude, corruption and blatant mis- management?

Is it still after all these years Blair's fault?

Bless.

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 18 Jul 2019, 20:26

Labour’s centrists lost the 2015 election, badly - you can hardly blame the left for that. Just two years later Corbyn increased Labour’s share of the vote by more than any other of the party's leaders since 1945. That it wasn’t enough for victory has everything to do with the four million votes the centrist election winning machine haemorrhaged after ‘97.

The Fixed-term Parliaments Act means the Tories can stay in power until 2022 unless their MPs vote for their own downfall - I suppose the fact Tory MPs aren’t choosing to junk their careers is Corbyn’s fault too. Bless.