CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 15 Jul 2019, 19:06

As I’ve said before in this thread, I understand well the left wing case against the EU. The theory is fine, but the reality is we have a right wing party in power and most of the big institutions in this country - the banks, the media, most MPs and the Lords, probably the civil service, definitely the armed forces - would prefer that didn’t change any time soon. Lexit’s an even bigger fantasy than Brexit - whatever deals are done after we leave won’t be doing anything to strengthen workers’ rights, protect the environment, end profiteering in the public sector, etc.

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 15 Jul 2019, 19:18

Tman wrote:
clashcityrocker wrote:
Tman wrote:
Does the current government "object" to the EU? Not as far as I've seen in the last three years. Far more for Remain than Leave, and that's why May's attempts at getting her "deal" through parliament failed.
May's deal would have passed if it wasn't for the opposition of the DUP and the Tory ERG.
And the entire Parliamentary Labour Party...

If the Tory party had backed their PM we’d have left three months ago, no matter what Labour did. This is on them and them alone, always has been.

May’s government weren’t secret EU flag waving remainiacs, they just recognised trying to unpick 40 years of economic, political and social integration almost overnight would’ve been insanity. Now we’re stuck with Boris and his sledgehammer.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 16 Jul 2019, 17:38

Woody Guthrie wrote:I've asked for genuine improvements for the working classes from leaving the EU and you've failed to mention one. You're just parroting stuff you've read on a pro-Brexit website without questioning what the real alternative to EU membership will mean to businesses, their staff and their customers.

You mention trade with Japan, China and India, three countries we already trade with. What you're asking me to believe is that we can get better trade deals with these countries on our own rather than as part of a giant trading block.

Please show your working...explain why.

Blind optimism is just stupidity in a posh frock pete, the guys who wanted out better come up with something more substantial soon, the clock is ticking.

Maybe you should be in politics yourself woody as you keep failing to answer the questions I put to you first!!

1. Have politicians in parliament made the situation for us to leave Europe much worse? Yes or No
2. Would you be prepared for Britain to leave Europe if it were a soft Brexit? Yes or No

If yes, what conditions would make you happy that Britain should leave?

If no, how will another vote work?

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 16 Jul 2019, 20:24

The "situation" for us to leave Europe was always going to be shambolic , what exactly did you expect with a slim majority referendum decision? The delusion that we would simply bang the table, demand to leave on our terms and sit back and enjoy the spoils was purely a figment of the leave campaign. What we have seen from the right wing of the Tory party and the Brexit party is a concerted effort to sabotage any chance of leaving in an orderly manner and manoeuvre us towards their favoured option...a no deal Brexit.

Whether I'm prepared to leave under a soft or hard Brexit has no bearing, I don't have any say in the matter.

Demanding yes or no answers on a discussion forum is also extremely rude. Please refrain from doing so again.

Namaste

work · Post by **work** » 17 Jul 2019, 01:07

Woody Guthrie wrote:The "situation" for us to leave Europe was always going to be shambolic , what exactly did you expect with a slim majority referendum decision? The delusion that we would simply bang the table, demand to leave on our terms and sit back and enjoy the spoils was purely a figment of the leave campaign. What we have seen from the right wing of the Tory party and the Brexit party is a concerted effort to sabotage any chance of leaving in an orderly manner and manoeuvre us towards their favoured option...a no deal Brexit.

Whether I'm prepared to leave under a soft or hard Brexit has no bearing, I don't have any say in the matter.

Demanding yes or no answers on a discussion forum is also extremely rude. Please refrain from doing so again.

Namaste

let's leave as per vote and be damned if we're going to go down with a sinking ship. a general election and some fresh politics will really put it up the neolib. a people's vote was always about a 'divorce'. messy, expensive but surely with our bulldog spirit an opportunity to reinvent our OWN great British democracy - warts and all. Next we will reform our tax laws. divorce the monarchy. consider our elderly - means test the whole bloody population. we the electorate have spoken and will continue to exercise our right to be heard...leave and be damned; to make it BETTER FOR OURSELVES. it was always about wrestling some control back even if it would seem to be a martyr's anarchy in the process...nowt is ever straightforward but to remain and do nothing is pure cowardice and they should be ashamed to even raise their heads to be heard. Just get on with it 'cos it's happening with or without you and i for one would preferably have any intelligent person with us rather than sulking and avoiding the inevitable change is gonna come...democracy for all mixed british citizens would drive up wages and conditions for all our peoples thus becoming a desirable place to be. like a phoenix from the ashes we can make our country work simply because we won't accept any other way forward...it's called progress, my dears. have confidence in our abilities not blind faith/fear...do not let the media bamboozle the greater scheme at hand here...all the establishment has their own agendas for survival and will do whatever they can to cling on, BUT, crucially cling on they must because this is the best thing to happen to British politics in years...all we desire is there for the taking and up in the air...now all we have to do is carpe diem/ grasp the nettle and let the navel gazers and doubters disappear up their own frickin kazoo(s). Good riddance. CRACK ON FOLKS...THE ATTITUDE OF CARRY ON REGARDLESS UNTIL TOLD OTHERWISE IS SO YESTERDAY...get a bloody good grip on reality and stare into the abyss of divorce...the horror, the horror we're embarking on can only be a good old roller-coaster of a trip, SCREAM IF YOU WANT TO GO FASTER!!!!

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 17 Jul 2019, 09:51

Means test the monarchy, how inspired

Marshamp11 · Post by **Marshamp11** » 17 Jul 2019, 15:22

work wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:The "situation" for us to leave Europe was always going to be shambolic , what exactly did you expect with a slim majority referendum decision? The delusion that we would simply bang the table, demand to leave on our terms and sit back and enjoy the spoils was purely a figment of the leave campaign. What we have seen from the right wing of the Tory party and the Brexit party is a concerted effort to sabotage any chance of leaving in an orderly manner and manoeuvre us towards their favoured option...a no deal Brexit.

Whether I'm prepared to leave under a soft or hard Brexit has no bearing, I don't have any say in the matter.

Demanding yes or no answers on a discussion forum is also extremely rude. Please refrain from doing so again.

Namaste
let's leave as per vote and be damned if we're going to go down with a sinking ship. a general election and some fresh politics will really put it up the neolib. a people's vote was always about a 'divorce'. messy, expensive but surely with our bulldog spirit an opportunity to reinvent our OWN great British democracy - warts and all. Next we will reform our tax laws. divorce the monarchy. consider our elderly - means test the whole bloody population. we the electorate have spoken and will continue to exercise our right to be heard...leave and be damned; to make it BETTER FOR OURSELVES. it was always about wrestling some control back even if it would seem to be a martyr's anarchy in the process...nowt is ever straightforward but to remain and do nothing is pure cowardice and they should be ashamed to even raise their heads to be heard. Just get on with it 'cos it's happening with or without you and i for one would preferably have any intelligent person with us rather than sulking and avoiding the inevitable change is gonna come...democracy for all mixed british citizens would drive up wages and conditions for all our peoples thus becoming a desirable place to be. like a phoenix from the ashes we can make our country work simply because we won't accept any other way forward...it's called progress, my dears. have confidence in our abilities not blind faith/fear...do not let the media bamboozle the greater scheme at hand here...all the establishment has their own agendas for survival and will do whatever they can to cling on, BUT, crucially cling on they must because this is the best thing to happen to British politics in years...all we desire is there for the taking and up in the air...now all we have to do is carpe diem/ grasp the nettle and let the navel gazers and doubters disappear up their own frickin kazoo(s). Good riddance. CRACK ON FOLKS...THE ATTITUDE OF CARRY ON REGARDLESS UNTIL TOLD OTHERWISE IS SO YESTERDAY...get a bloody good grip on reality and stare into the abyss of divorce...the horror, the horror we're embarking on can only be a good old roller-coaster of a trip, SCREAM IF YOU WANT TO GO FASTER!!!!

Rock on. "Into the valley of death" Charge of the Light Brigade stuff. Something this country seems to lack somewhat these days I'm afraid.

deltaforce · Post by **deltaforce** » 17 Jul 2019, 16:01

so long as it’s not you getting the lance up ones anus then that’s ok then!

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 17 Jul 2019, 16:03

The problem with satire is that sometimes all people hear is whoosh.....

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 17 Jul 2019, 16:07

A little research into military history wouldn't go amiss either.

Post by **baldrick** » 17 Jul 2019, 18:33

Screenshot 2019-07-17 at 18.25.21.png

Marshamp11 · Post by **Marshamp11** » 17 Jul 2019, 18:49

Woody Guthrie wrote:A little research into military history wouldn't go amiss either.

We lost the battle but won the war I believe. But thats not the point the point is regardless of odds we still had the b%$#&ocks to give it a go.

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 17 Jul 2019, 19:04

‘We’, lol.

“The charge of the Light Brigade was hideous idiocy. At the battle of Balaclava in the Crimean war in October 1854, the British cavalry charged, sabres aloft, at the Russian artillery, down a long valley that was also flanked by more Russian guns that could fire on them from above.

“It was pure suicidal butchery: survivors wrote things like “never was such murder ordered”. But the English back home loved it. The prime minister Lord Palmerston described it as “glorious” and Alfred Tennyson wrote a poem that every schoolboy, even of my generation in republican Ireland, knew: “Theirs not to make reply,/ Theirs not to reason why,/ Theirs but to do and die.”

“The problem, however, is that the original English cult of heroic failure was, paradoxically, a symptom of British power.

“The English could afford to celebrate glorious failure because they were actually very successful – the myths of suffering and endurance covered up the truth that it was mostly other people who had to endure the suffering.

“But the return to heroic failure in the psychology of Brexit is a perfect example of a mythic mindset surviving long after it has ceased to be useful.

“The English can’t afford to indulge their inherited tastes for grandiose screw-ups. But they still have a sweet tooth for these empty calories.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fint ... -1.2947706" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 17 Jul 2019, 19:14

Marshamp11 wrote: But thats not the point the point is regardless of odds we still had the b%$#&ocks to give it a go.

We didn't have the bollocks to do anything, it was 1854 and we weren't around.
Courage by association, not a good look.

mickeymacca · Post by **mickeymacca** » 17 Jul 2019, 19:35

Marshamp11 wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:A little research into military history wouldn't go amiss either.
We lost the battle but won the war I believe. But thats not the point the point is regardless of odds we still had the b%$#&ocks to give it a go.

possibly the most stupid comment I've seen on this forum, and there is some serious competition.

I think when a protagonist is arguing about the value of 'The charge of the Light Brigade' it's possibly the time to stop engaging.

you cannot argue with stupidity.