CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

[baldrick]

Things will be better (or different) when that nice Mr Corbyn gets into power then?

Yes!

[k979aaa]

Likewise we’ll still be stuck with a right wing government implementing a strategy of fiscal consolidation (aka austerity), .

Things will be better (or different) when that nice Mr Corbyn gets into power then?

Problem with your perspective is anyone left of May is a Communist and will double down on tax evasion and those to the right like bojo and hunt are the saviours of the nation yet they have done nothing for the working man/woman nor will they so they save tax evaders at the expense of the NHS where did the £350 Million a week go? They cannot even elect themselves properly two ballots per member how is democracy served by this even if it is a small electorate and the case is now seen what they will do to our nation in the race for power and control!

[Tman]

Problem with your perspective is anyone left of May is a Communist and will double down on tax evasion and those to the right like bojo and hunt are the saviours of the nation

And the problem with your perspective is that it's presumptive and wrong. Show me where I've ever advocated voting for anything other than Labour (until Corbyn was made leader anyway)
{Ask Baldrick and he'll search posts going back years}

The argument that if you don't like Corbyn then you must like Johnson and co belongs in the playground. Are you still being taken in by Corbyn after all this time?
So many open goals on the Tories over the last three years and Corbyn misses them all. He's useless. His ratings are even lower than May, and she's leaving office in a few weeks after a disastrous premiership.
The Labour contender for Corbyn's own constituency came third in the recent MEP elections, and that's after the terrible results for Corbyn's party in the recent local elections.
Time to face facts, he's dead in the water (there's one for Woods) and even those who used to chant his name at Glastonbury and similar see through him now.
The best weapons in Johnson's next election campaign, Corbyn, MacDonnel and Abbott, especially after selling out their traditional voters on Brexit.

[k979aaa]

Problem with your perspective is anyone left of May is a Communist and will double down on tax evasion and those to the right like bojo and hunt are the saviours of the nation

And the problem with your perspective is that it's presumptive and wrong. Show me where I've ever advocated voting for anything other than Labour (until Corbyn was made leader anyway)
{Ask Baldrick and he'll search posts going back years}

The argument that if you don't like Corbyn then you must like Johnson and co belongs in the playground. Are you still being taken in by Corbyn after all this time?
So many open goals on the Tories over the last three years and Corbyn misses them all. He's useless. His ratings are even lower than May, and she's leaving office in a few weeks after a disastrous premiership.
The Labour contender for Corbyn's own constituency came third in the recent MEP elections, and that's after the terrible results for Corbyn's party in the recent local elections.
Time to face facts, he's dead in the water (there's one for Woods) and even those who used to chant his name at Glastonbury and similar see through him now.
The best weapons in Johnson's next election campaign, Corbyn, MacDonnel and Abbott, especially after selling out their traditional voters on Brexit.

The very fact we are allowed to disagree on here is an example of free speech and we are not slaves as some would tell us https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politi ... orting-map" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; All though we do feel repressed by our political class I don't like Corbyns Defence policy or his anti nuclear policy or his policy of taxing the rich 60% of their income as long as the pay tax the ones who don't subsidise those who don't we need to find a place where business and workers work together and each other and we will need this if we leave on the 31 of October!

[k979aaa]

Problem with your perspective is anyone left of May is a Communist and will double down on tax evasion and those to the right like bojo and hunt are the saviours of the nation

And the problem with your perspective is that it's presumptive and wrong. Show me where I've ever advocated voting for anything other than Labour (until Corbyn was made leader anyway)
{Ask Baldrick and he'll search posts going back years}

The argument that if you don't like Corbyn then you must like Johnson and co belongs in the playground. Are you still being taken in by Corbyn after all this time?
So many open goals on the Tories over the last three years and Corbyn misses them all. He's useless. His ratings are even lower than May, and she's leaving office in a few weeks after a disastrous premiership.
The Labour contender for Corbyn's own constituency came third in the recent MEP elections, and that's after the terrible results for Corbyn's party in the recent local elections.
Time to face facts, he's dead in the water (there's one for Woods) and even those who used to chant his name at Glastonbury and similar see through him now.
The best weapons in Johnson's next election campaign, Corbyn, MacDonnel and Abbott, especially after selling out their traditional voters on Brexit.

The very fact we are allowed to disagree on here is an example of free speech and we are not slaves as some would tell us https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politi ... orting-map" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; All though we do feel repressed by our political class I don't like Corbyns Defence policy or his anti nuclear policy or his policy of taxing the rich 60% of their income as long as the pay tax the ones who do subsidise those who don't we need to find a place where business and workers work together and each other and we will need this if we leave on the 31 of October!

[26l34]

Corbyn and Labour’s ratings have been largely dire for 4 years, the exception being especially in Corbyn’s case the few weeks in the build up to the last election, when not only did a degree of media impartiality kick in but Labour MPs realised they’d have to suspend trashing their party’s leadership if they wanted to keep their seats. I’ve my own issues with Corbyn as an individual and a leader but the scale and vitriol of the attacks on him highlight what a threat to a largely rigged system he represents, Labour could replace him with a more media friendly centrist but what’d be the point if this government won’t be replaced by a radical transformative agenda (which is what Corbyn’s actually fairly timid brand of social democracy represents after 4 decades of the Thatcherite-Blairite consensus).

None of this is relevant anyway to the questions of what Brexit should be and how we get there, which continually go unanswered by Brexiters.

[k979aaa]

Corbyn and Labour’s ratings have been largely dire for 4 years, the exception being especially in Corbyn’s case the few weeks in the build up to the last election, when not only did a degree of media impartiality kick in but Labour MPs realised they’d have to suspend trashing their party’s leadership if they wanted to keep their seats. I’ve my own issues with Corbyn as an individual and a leader but the scale and vitriol of the attacks on him highlight what a threat to a largely rigged system he represents, Labour could replace him with a more media friendly centrist but what’d be the point if this government won’t be replaced by a radical transformative agenda (which is what Corbyn’s actually fairly timid brand of social democracy represents after 4 decades of the Thatcherite-Blairite consensus).

None of this is relevant anyway to the questions of what Brexit should be and how we get there, which continually go unanswered by Brexiters.

Well BOJO wants to invade France he thinks his uncle Mr Donald Trump will do it with us as we could replace the regime in that country and so dictate policy over the whole of Europe for the next 50-100 years he thinks it will work as do the the Americans as it breaks up the EU the most powerful trading block in the world if you take out France of the EU it would no longer be a economic power as the political power is in France and Germany is but an industrial power house hence the end of the EU!

[Woody Guthrie]

Corbyn is a liability not because of his policies which you could argue about all day but because he's a professional protester. He's only happy arguing against something but at some point to be a leader you have to pick a side and argue for that side not just protest about the other side.

All we hear from Corbyn supporters is yeah but what about the Tories, yeah but what about Blair, centrist underminers, neo- liberal media conspiracies blah blah blah, it's getting old and so is he.

He won't win an election and while Labour are in opposition they're doing the square root of f**k all to help anyone.

[26l34]

I’m sorry if people saying things that are true is boring to you but it’s clearly not a conspiracy to suggest a left wing Labour leader is going to receive hostility from a lot of vested interest groups.

As a former Blairite I can tell you that Blairism ran out of road the moment the banks blew up so unless you can find a younger, baggage free leftist and magic us into a world in which said leftist will receive fair treatment from a capitalist media there’s no alternative I’m afraid, or certainly not an alternative worth fighting for anyway.

[Woody Guthrie]

The Labour party and particularly momentum have become obsessed with the"leftist" narrative and have toxified the centre ground. The party should be a broad church representing the 95% of the country who work for a living whether they earn the minimum wage or £100k pa.

You don't help anyone while in opposition, the party has become a vessel for virtue signalling. Nice work if you can get it but not much use for putting bread on the table.

[26l34]

The centrists did a perfectly good job of toxifying the centre ground.

If opposing the hollowing out of public services, the sell off of state owned assets and reforms to welfare that immiserate millions is virtue signalling then I’m very much for that. If folk support a health service riddled with profiteers, infrastructure projects outside of London mothballed due to cuts, an unintegrated and overpriced public transport system and a housing market deliberately designed to keep prices high while buy to let landlords make a killing charging rip off rents then no, Labour’s not for them and the party should make no apologies for that.

[Woody Guthrie]

The problem is we all know what's wrong we're not stupid so what exactly is the point of your virtue signalling, what does it achieve apart from make you feel clever?

There's nothing wrong with opposing any of those things but at some point you have to come up with a plan to get into power so that you can do more than just oppose them, you can actually start reversing them. We're 9 years down the line from the last Labour government during which time the Tories have created havoc and misery and despite the most inept Conservative government in history we're no closer to a Labour government than we were in 2010 in those "dark" centrist days.

At some point you have to re-evaluate your goals, do you want to be a party of protest and feel warm and fuzzy on a personal level or do you want to actually help people? You have to start wondering whether Corbyn, momentum and the endlessly virtuous are afraid of power, afraid that the reality of power is that you have to stop protesting and start making difficult choices.

[Marshamp11]

Things will be better (or different) when that nice Mr Corbyn gets into power then?

Yes!

Would certainly be different given that he has rubbed shoulders with some very shady organisations in the past. Dangerous.

[26l34]

There's nothing wrong with opposing any of those things but at some point you have to come up with a plan to get into power so that you can do more than just oppose them, you can actually start reversing them. We're 9 years down the line from the last Labour government during which time the Tories have created havoc and misery and despite the most inept Conservative government in history we're no closer to a Labour government than we were in 2010 in those "dark" centrist days.

Not that I care for opinion polls generally and think the current volatility renders the whole polling industry largely redundant but I see Opinium has Labour ahead in a four horse race and still just about favourites to win the most seats with the bookies, so I don’t think that’s true. In theory we’re still 3 years from another general election so there’s all to play for.

The left doesn’t have a monopoly on virtue, it just knows what it stands for - you might not like them but the left’s positions on tax and spend, welfare, nationalisation, war, and so on are quite clear. The centrists have had 11 years to sketch out a workable alternative to Blairism, we’re no closer to seeing what it is. Generally I find them - people that endlessly use phrases like virtue signalling and identity politics - to just be quite mad at no longer being the most left wing voices in the room. It must be upsetting for them to realise they’re not as radical or as good at politics as they once thought but perhaps there’s still time for them to reinvent themselves, though as I say they’ve had over a decade and still we wait.

[26l34]

Things will be better (or different) when that nice Mr Corbyn gets into power then?

Yes!

Would certainly be different given that he has rubbed shoulders with some very shady organisations in the past. Dangerous.

Wait until you hear about Benjamin Netanyahu, Mohammed bin Salman, and some American guy called Donald Trump.