stopping early finishes

[Woody Guthrie]

so everyone leaves at the same time to deliver the mail and then anyone who comes back early will either do indoor work or go out and help others until it's official finish time.

So let's take a look at reality.

Week 1:You send the early finishers back out.
This reduces your overtime and you think this is a wonderful idea.

Week 2: You have no early finishers.
Why would they rush around just to finish some other guy's delivery.
Your OT budget has gone through the roof again.

Week 3: You don't get much lapsing done.
You've removed a great deal of the motivation from the runners and even from the guys on the smaller deliveries, why would they, if they're going to hang out a duty until finish time they might as well go the whole way.
Now you have an OT problem and a busted lapsing plan.

Week 4: What do you think happens in week 4?

[mickeymacca]

Woody, our manager was making a point of the the yellow dot on the PDA actuals which indicates inactivity, how can you hang out a low traffic day when you have to satisfy not triggering the yellow dot alert/ performance indicator thing-a-me-bob........

[smok3y666]

We've been told this morning in our WTL that they are our manager is thinking of bringing in set "leaving the office times" so everyone leaves at the same time to deliver the mail and then anyone who comes back early will either do indoor work or go out and help others until it's official finish time.

So what happens if full timers are fully tied up before the set leaving time, will they assist part timers who arrive to frames overflowing with manual mail and packets needing prepped?

In our office most of the time a PT will be with a FT so that shouldn't happen. It's very rare a PT gets put with a PT and if that does happen then they usually get help. Of course there are times when that doesn't happen but not that often. And i'm commenting on what our DoM told us and it was that brief, literally 30 secs of "oh and btw....." at the end of the actual WTL.

[Woody Guthrie]

how can you hang out a low traffic day when you have to satisfy not triggering the yellow dot alert/ performance indicator thing-a-me-bob........

The position on these boards is that everyone who finishes early are skipping breaks, starting early and running around their delivery. If they didn't do that there would be no lapsing and full-time jobs for all.
If that's true and you remove the motivation to finish early presumably the business will fall apart.

What nobody wants to discuss is what a manager or indeed a business faced with this scenario would do. What it won't do is accept its labour costs increasing dramatically with a smile..

[Navalron]

In the offices I have worked in , the time given to Royal Mail by people coming in before their time , prepping d2d after their finish time , taking no breaks and not claiming any overtime and not using correct delivery methods massively outweighs any time the small percentage of people that actually finish earlier than their time.

Now with the actuals being used ( only for the outdoor part which wouldn’t account for most of the time rm staff gift the company ) why would anyone be cutting all those corners ? , remember this when they are adding more to your delivery, when the job cuts happen , because they are being given so much time and will take more delivery’s out , it will be you or someone you work with that loses their job , and for what ? Because A mutual billion pound company is being given millions of pound worth of work for nothing.

As long as I’ve worked for Royal Mail I’ve never understood why people do this.

I totally agree. Even if you examine how posties who appear to be finishing really early are actually working - coming in maybe 30 to 40 minutes early and not taking their 40 minute break - the time equation will show they are working all their duty time if not going over.
For example on Saturday looking 'on paper' on our signing in sheet I finished exactly on time. In actual fact though I arrived at work fifteen minutes early and didn't take my first twenty minute break so I did thirty-five minutes work in excess of duty time unpaid.

Why didn't you claim celgar. You say this quite a lot. Over the course of a year you are probably giving RM about a months worth of free work.

[glass joe]

We've been told this morning in our WTL that they are our manager is thinking of bringing in set "leaving the office times" so everyone leaves at the same time to deliver the mail and then anyone who comes back early will either do indoor work or go out and help others until it's official finish time.

I am surprised Royal Mail don't make it mandatory if you get back early you don't get sent straight back out to help people who claim overtime.

I can see in the future Royal Mail pairing up van deliveries one fast pair with one slow, so when you finish your delivery and have time you must help the other van pair finish off their deliveries. This would cut overtime in the office saving Royal Mail money.

[Woody Guthrie]

I can see in the future Royal Mail pairing up van deliveries one fast pair with one slow, so when you finish your delivery and have time you must help the other van pair finish off their deliveries. This would cut overtime in the office saving Royal Mail money.

You would just end up with two slow pairs trying to get the other pair to finish their delivery.
This would cause overtime and cost Royal Mail money.

Doesn't anyone understand human nature on these boards?

Mick : Right Bob if we really tear into this we can go help Frank and Tracey finish their delivery..

Bob : Have you been drinking the de-icer again Mick?

[postslippete]

How does overtime go through the roof if early finishers finish on time?? Most of those who finish early do so because it suits them and they do it precisely because they don't want to be out delivering mail past their finish time. I don't think that will ever change.

The busted lapsing plan would be a good thing for us posties. It's those selfish ones who rush round and are still doing job and finish that makes the lapsing possible!! When all posties make a stand and decide not to lapse -
then you don't lapse. All lapsing ever does is put more pressure on posties to do more work within the hours. It usually means more issues with managers, more overtime being claimed to those doing the job sensibly and more sick absence through stress and whatnot.

Delivery managers are still paid to ensure that all walks are clear so if on unforseen circumstances like staff sickness or heavy days when staff want to leave loops,it is still their responsibility to get the work delivered. If they can't rely on the runners doing the usual ghosting then it will just have to be them doing the donkey work instead.

However,Royal Mail will always see bigger duties as the wider picture so ensuring that staff don't finish early Is not a bad strategy to adopt for the future.

[citypostie]

I can see in the future Royal Mail pairing up van deliveries one fast pair with one slow, so when you finish your delivery and have time you must help the other van pair finish off their deliveries. This would cut overtime in the office saving Royal Mail money.

You would just end up with two slow pairs trying to get the other pair to finish their delivery.
This would cause overtime and cost Royal Mail money.

Doesn't anyone understand human nature on these boards?

Mick : Right Bob if we really tear into this we can go help Frank and Tracey finish their delivery..

Bob : Have you been drinking the de-icer again Mick?

And then Bob would say we will just walk slower on the last 2 loops and try as many neighbours as we have to to get rid of parcels then after we've done that a slow drive back will take us to our time, we can easily add another 20 minutes onto the loop like them other 2 do so if they can work at that speed so can we

[Postie45]

Doesn't anyone understand human nature on these boards?

Mick : Right Bob if we really tear into this we can go help Frank and Tracey finish their delivery..

Bob : Have you been drinking the de-icer again Mick?

my thoughts on "human nature" and rationale regarding posties went out the window when i see people coming in 30 mins early and finishing bang on time, basically giving RM free work day in day out.

[Woody Guthrie]

The busted lapsing plan would be a good thing for us posties

You think so?
What's the alternative?

The only other viable solution to a variable resourcing plan is variable hours.
Variable workload or variable labour?
Lapsing plan or banking hours?
Do you want to run that by the membership before you decide it's a"good thing"....

[citypostie]

Doesn't anyone understand human nature on these boards?

Mick : Right Bob if we really tear into this we can go help Frank and Tracey finish their delivery..

Bob : Have you been drinking the de-icer again Mick?

my thoughts on "human nature" and rationale regarding posties went out the window when i see people coming in 30 mins early and finishing bang on time, basically giving RM free work day in day out.

I've never understood that either, fair enough if you start 30 minutes early and get an hour or more back at the end but starting early for free just to be done on time makes my head spin. My manager has always said he wouldn't stop people starting early and wouldn't make them do more work if they get done early because it evens itself out the hours they are working. If his stance on this changes it will be interesting to see if people will stop coming in early, I think it will. I can't believe anyone would start early just to be given more to do if they get done early

[Woody Guthrie]

i see people coming in 30 mins early and finishing bang on time, basically giving RM free work day in day out.

People do that in all sorts of jobs in all sorts of industries.
It's only really in this job that it seems to be such a big deal to others. I've heard all the excuses about costing jobs and causing bullying before but in most cases it doesn't really stack up.

It's maybe not the smartest of moves but as I've been through a dozen times there are many different reasons for it and it doesn't necessarily make these people idiots or morons or whatever insult is today's favourite. It's human nature no matter how you slice it whether it's to avoid confrontation, peer pressure, selfishness, intimidation or simply a need to have routine.

[postslippete]

The busted lapsing plan would be a good thing for us posties

You think so?
What's the alternative?

The only other viable solution to a variable resourcing plan is variable hours.
Variable workload or variable labour?
Lapsing plan or banking hours?
Do you want to run that by the membership before you decide it's a"good thing"....

We already have variable hour contracts - there are part timers on 18 hours,whilst some are on 29,some on 31. Whether staff wish to reduce their hours is up to them. Variable workload we already have with longs and shorts,you can't mean to tell me that managers will suddenly decide on any given day what time we will be finishing...they can't even put together a rota more than a week in advance!! Someone also mentioned it on these boards,can't think who though?

Banking of hours is not part of the agreement and can't also see it being agreed with the union. What often gets run by the members by the CWU is that we work all the hours that you are paid for - that is the viable alternative. Surely you understand that?? it's obvious to me that if you come in on time,take a break and do the job without cutting corners you don't actually make up that much time.

[Smith1212]

Biggest issue is the people coming in early every day it's unreal how many I see doing it when I'm sat in the car park waiting for my start time !