CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

26l34 · Post by **26l34** » 27 May 2019, 16:58

Things are becoming dangerously polarised and I think it's a shame Labour's stance - to try and find a bridge between the two positions - is seen as cowardice or whatever. Personally I voted remain but was happy to accept the result and was fine with the prospect of leaving in a way that left us quite closely aligned with the EU - many pro-Brexit heads suggested this was the most likely outcome before the referendum, I only recall no deal being presented as a threat with which we'd use to secure a good deal, never a serious option. Sadly I think the moment for compromise has passed, there's a hardcore on both sides that have become increasingly entrenched and they're not listening either to Labour's leadership or the Tory MPs who want a soft exit. Honestly have no idea how this gets resolved, no deal looks the 'easiest' option in that all the next Tory PM has to do is run down the clock though whether they're really prepared to own the consequences of that, who knows. A second referendum that puts no deal up against remain/revoke could turn seriously ugly, the stakes on both sides are massive, not sure why the Tories would grant such a vote anyway even if Labour fully signed up to calling for it.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 27 May 2019, 17:07

So far we have nine clowns who have put their hat in the ring for leadership of the conservative party MAY saw her authority shot to pieces who ever gets the job will not find 312 willing loyal servants just because of membership of the conservative party that is divided right to the core!

mickeymacca · Post by **mickeymacca** » 27 May 2019, 17:56

Woody Guthrie wrote:I think the only thing that is clear is that the European elections have told us nothing we don't already know.

I don't know, I thought the Peoples vote parties performance exceeded expectations (mine anyway). Its all conjecture how the Labour vote would go in a 2nd ref, ditto the SNP although you would generalise and think they would be mostly remain sided, Conservatives you would think would be Leave mostly but who knows, and then of course the turnout wasn't huge and so the numbers could be completely different in a 2nd go, I would think the Brexit Party would be fighting tooth and nail against a 2nd go though on these results.....

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 27 May 2019, 22:02

Stats can be easily manipulated so that the whole thing resembles something of a Monty Python sketch. Whether Labour should be regarded as a pro-brexit party in the same way that the Tory party should be considered as leave party is another matter because both parties are somewhat divided. I don't think that there should be another vote though because all it will do is fuel resentment to those who initially voted Brexit as much as it is doing to those who voted to remain as of now.

We can all find reasons for and against. Reasons why it won't work or why its all going to go t*ts up. Solving the Brexit problem has been massively hampered by politicians with vested interests. Sadly, we are in a position where the EU are holding all the cards right now and we desperately need to regain back some of our control.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 28 May 2019, 09:14

Our UK media would have it that the EU "hold all the cards right now" but the reality is that the EU don't relish the idea of losing the UK's annual contributions to the EU's budget nor do they want trade to be hampered in any way.
If the hypocrite Corbyn had the objective of leaving the EU (as he's proclaimed long and loud for the last thirty years) rather than try and force a GE then the initial stages would have been achieved by now, so yes, vested interests on all sides.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 28 May 2019, 13:04

It's immaterial whether you believe in media conspiracies or whether the EU "holds all the cards".
The EU can only negotiate if the other party knows what it wants and this shower of clowns can't even agree amongst themselves what kind of deal they want never mind whether the EU will go for it.
Only a nihilist would have a vested interest in this shambles. Bumbling Boris can't even come to a consensus with his own headspace. In, out, shake it all about Bobo.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 28 May 2019, 14:52

The UK doesn't "hold any cards" because we are governed by intellectual pygmies.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 28 May 2019, 17:13

The new Tory leader should be a hardcore Beleaver, someone who is not afraid to say "No deal". BoJo remains the bookies favourite but I think someone like Dominic Raab, a Foreign Office lawyer and former Brexit secretary, would be an excellent choice. Personally, I would prefer that we leave with a deal just like anyone else BUT I don't believe that we will ever be taken seriously in Brussels unless we are resolutely clear that we can and will walk away on WTO terms.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 28 May 2019, 17:19

We need to make a decision soon, seafloor spreading in the mid Atlantic due to the shift in tectonic plates means that the US and a potential trade deal is getting further away each day. All that extra chlorine to keep the chickens fresh will impact on our ability to be a world leader in something or other.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 28 May 2019, 17:22

I don't believe that we will ever be taken seriously in Brussels

You should have left it at that....

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 28 May 2019, 17:32

someone who is not afraid to say "No deal".

You can say "No Deal" a hundred times but it won't make a damm bit of difference to your negotiating position unless you can convince your opponents that you mean it and since parliament has already ruled out a no deal Brexit, senior Tories have already threatened to bring down a PM who attempts to force a no deal through against parliament's wishes and the government has no majority other than with the DUP in tow who won't support a no deal Brexit that would be deeply unpopular and bloody dangerous in NI good luck convincing the EU that it's a real threat.

They're not mugs you know. An empty threat weakens your negotiating position, it doesn't strengthen it.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 29 May 2019, 19:57

Woody Guthrie wrote:
someone who is not afraid to say "No deal".
You can say "No Deal" a hundred times but it won't make a damm bit of difference to your negotiating position unless you can convince your opponents that you mean it and since parliament has already ruled out a no deal Brexit, senior Tories have already threatened to bring down a PM who attempts to force a no deal through against parliament's wishes and the government has no majority other than with the DUP in tow who won't support a no deal Brexit that would be deeply unpopular and bloody dangerous in NI good luck convincing the EU that it's a real threat.

They're not mugs you know. An empty threat weakens your negotiating position, it doesn't strengthen it.

Jeremy Corbyn mentioned earlier this week what with the Conservatives that were disintegrating and unable to govern and with parliament deadlocked, he thinks that the issue will have to go back to the people, whether through a general election or a public vote. The problem with that though is that the majority of the British public aren't mugs either. Its still written into law that the UK will be leaving, even though the deadline has shifted. So I suspect if parliament cant come up with the goods then "No Deal" shouldn't be regarded as a threat, but as a very real probability.

Post by **baldrick** » 30 May 2019, 06:38

postslippete wrote:The new Tory leader should be a hardcore Beleaver, someone who is not afraid to say "No deal". BoJo remains the bookies favourite but I think someone like Dominic Raab, a Foreign Office lawyer and former Brexit secretary, would be an excellent choice. Personally, I would prefer that we leave with a deal just like anyone else BUT I don't believe that we will ever be taken seriously in Brussels unless we are resolutely clear that we can and will walk away on WTO terms.

Johnson, Davis, Gove and Raab all were negotiators with the EU on Brexit and resigned as they couldn't get a deal acceptable to them, and couldn't accept May's deal.
The EU has made it clear they aren't going to renegotiate the deal on offer.
What happens to the Irish Border if we walk away with WTO terms? None of the above has offered a credible solution.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 01 Jun 2019, 20:08

Well good old Donald Trump has endorsed his fellow country man Boris Johnson what a surprise next we can do trade deals around the world and anyone we he does not like we will impose tariffs and they will hit us harder than the US what a bunch of right wing toffs we educate to primary level education!

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 09 Jun 2019, 23:04

Well Well what do we have here after the the D Day landings ending the Dictatorships of the time we have some dictators on our own soil whilst it may please Nigel Fararge and his ilk the CONSERVATIVE PARTY has gone down the dark road of dictatorship by two of it's candidates for leadership and thus priminister of our nation. Rabb and Mcvey have declared war upon the sovereignty of our government may they hang their heads in shame themselves before others do what the french did in 1789!