Completing in time

[Postie45]

Get 2 managers to go out and do a walk over a week with a Postie and CWU representative shadowing them. Let's see how they do, sticking to the rules, taking their break(s) etc, and see when they get back to the depot. Then calculate the approximate amount of deliveries that can be made in that time. Then you can decide what the maximum combination of post and parcels can be taken out in order to complete in time, instead of Posties and management having daily debates/arguments about it...

They did this but used computers to do it, the faith is in the computers and not to have managers go out and test each delivery which would cost a LOT of money, and simply wont happen. To even begin thinking of going down this route the delivery would have to be failed consistently for a long period of time to show their isnt sufficient time to complete it.

Then come up with a list of limits for that particular walk:

1. A total maximum amount of parcels over shoe box size you have to take out. Anything over you can refuse to take with you.

2. A maximum total weight of your York with all parcels and bags of post. Anything over you can refuse to take with you.

As im sure youve found delivering x amount of parcels can vary dependent on the amount of people who are in, or if their neighbours are in. So 20 parcels could take much longer if you attempt delivery, then attempt to deliver to neighbour(s) (as we should be doing) then return to original house and write out a 739 card, takes MUCH longer than handing over the parcel to the original recipient.
So saying x amount of parcels must be done in the time actually isnt great for the postman or RM.

I am pretty sure that the walk I did the other day would have to be reduced if management were fair, we never completed in time and we took no breaks. I'd love to see 2 managers go out and do that round in time.... no chance. After having their break and doing everything by the book, I am sure they'd finish 45mins to 90mins late.

you could have followed cut off procedure and finished on time, and you could have taken your break. Cutting corners makes it easier for managers to turn a blind eye to problem walks, not incentivise them into action.


Generally, whats better is for postmen to follow procedure, do the job as instructed and follow cut off procedure or book overtime.
A lot of people dont want to hear that because it limits their chances of finishing early, a lot of it is because most are too short sighted and only worried about getting home early that particular day, rather than think about the long term consequences of their daily actions.

[The Postman]

What we really need is ‘wilful delay’ abolished. It’s by far the biggest cause of the bullying culture in offices up and down the country, It’s continually used as a beating stick to force posties to go over their time. Let’s see you do something about this asap CWU, there’s absolutely no need for it in this day and age, we have pda actuals that accurately show where we are and at what speed we’re working.

We could have fixed AHDC terminals in every unit bypassing the need for managers to withhold overtime to meet budgets, and also bypassing the weekly cat and mouse games of chasing overtime that’s never going to be paid. Payroll would be automatic and accurate. You finish late, your paid overtime. You finish early, your paid until you swipe out. What’s that you say CWU? A fair days work for a fair days pay? Well this is how it’s achieved and it’s long overdue.

Both should be implemented at National level. There should be no punishment for rolling over the previous days work to the next day if work has been over allocated! This would make managers staff the office properly in the first place and sort out the unfare imbalance between duties in every office.

[SpacePhoenix]

What we really need is ‘wilful delay’ abolished. It’s by far the biggest cause of the bullying culture in offices up and down the country, It’s continually used as a beating stick to force posties to go over their time. Let’s see you do something about this asap CWU, there’s absolutely no need for it in this day and age, we have pda actuals that accurately show where we are and at what speed we’re working.

AFAIK they can't as it's written into law in the Postal Services Act 2000

[norris9]

What we really need is ‘wilful delay’ abolished. It’s by far the biggest cause of the bullying culture in offices up and down the country, It’s continually used as a beating stick to force posties to go over their time. Let’s see you do something about this asap CWU, there’s absolutely no need for it in this day and age, we have pda actuals that accurately show where we are and at what speed we’re working.

We could have fixed AHDC terminals in every unit bypassing the need for managers to withhold overtime to meet budgets, and also bypassing the weekly cat and mouse games of chasing overtime that’s never going to be paid. Payroll would be automatic and accurate. You finish late, your paid overtime. You finish early, your paid until you swipe out. What’s that you say CWU? A fair days work for a fair days pay? Well this is how it’s achieved and it’s long overdue.

Both should be implemented at National level. There should be no punishment for rolling over the previous days work to the next day if work has been over allocated! This would make managers staff the office properly in the first place and sort out the unfare imbalance between duties in every office.

The current system - in the minds of many Posties - is great for them because of this incentive of getting to go home before their contracted hours end. It is like some drug to them. But this drug is making them work harder, to get finished quicker, to skip breaks.... so although Royal Mail is paying Posties that have already gone home....they know they have got the most out of a lot of them, more than they would have if they didn't have this go home early incentive.

If you take that perk away from Posties....what will happen to their productivity?

RM have got many Posties by the balls by allowing this....they have this low hanging fruit so they can get as much out of you as they can.

If you bring in clocking in and clocking out, then Posties will probably become less productive, take breaks.... not good for Royal Mail and I think a lot of Posties won't like it as now they aren't getting paid for going home early.


I would just say there needs to be a more accurate and fair way of deciding what a Postie should take out with him or her. Just to stop all the arguments/debates with management. Just fairly calculate what is the maximum amount of parcels and post that can be delivered at a reasonable speed, with a 30 minute break, calculate how many parcels that is and assign a weight to the job...ie. Max you take out is 100kg. Easy, then you should never have to bring anything back as anything over the max weight you leave behind - no arguments. The scales decide for you. The manager, nor you, can disagree with the mighty scales.

Walk 69:

Max weight limit of bags with post and small packages: 100KG, if weight is under 100KG then the manager can top your York up with Lapsing.

Max number of parcels. If York weight is ~100kg then 20 parcels max can be taken, if 90kg then max 25 parcels can be taken, if 80kg then max 30 parcels can be taken.



Arguments and debates ended, happy faces, no stress....

You should be able to complete in time as the walk has been accurately and fairly evaluated. If you finish early - you are free to go home early.

[2pints]

The life of a reserve aye? I understand why you feel under pressure to skip your break and take your point that you probably have time sat in van waiting for your partner anyway.However,taking your meal relief is not just about having a rest mate,it is making sure we all do not get silly amounts of work shoved down our necks and told to get on with.The more people that skip breaks,the quicker the office becomes a miserable place to work,especially for reserves!

So harold comes in on his usual job20 mins early,takes zero meal relief and finishes 30 mins early every day,manager never has any cut off discussions with harold.Henry the reserve comes on harolds job to cover harolds well earned holiday... henry comes in on his start time,takes his meal relief and cannot complete the round within his time,henry has to collect his children from school.Speaks to manager and manager says "well harold never has any problems so it must be your fault"

Typical example of a break dodging ,early starting selfish nesbit ruining the job for all of us.

[norris9]

The life of a reserve aye? I understand why you feel under pressure to skip your break and take your point that you probably have time sat in van waiting for your partner anyway.However,taking your meal relief is not just about having a rest mate,it is making sure we all do not get silly amounts of work shoved down our necks and told to get on with.The more people that skip breaks,the quicker the office becomes a miserable place to work,especially for reserves!

So harold comes in on his usual job20 mins early,takes zero meal relief and finishes 30 mins early every day,manager never has any cut off discussions with harold.Henry the reserve comes on harolds job to cover harolds well earned holiday... henry comes in on his start time,takes his meal relief and cannot complete the round within his time,henry has to collect his children from school.Speaks to manager and manager says "well harold never has any problems so it must be your fault"

Typical example of a break dodging ,early starting selfish nesbit ruining the job for all of us.

Seems everyone is a Nesbit based on what I have seen so far. It's normal for Posties not to have breaks and to start early.

Anyhow, if this is the case, where the manager corners Henry for being slow....it's all evidenced anyway...Henry is doing the job properly, Harold isn't. the manager should not be able to criticise Henry, whatsoever. The manager is as much in the wrong here as Harold is, if not more. So blame the manager as well, not just Harold.

[Postie45]

Walk 69:

Max weight limit of bags with post and small packages: 100KG, if weight is under 100KG then the manager can top your York up with Lapsing.

Max number of parcels. If York weight is ~100kg then 20 parcels max can be taken, if 90kg then max 25 parcels can be taken, if 80kg then max 30 parcels can be taken.

bag weight is a poor metric to determine how long a delivery should take. We dont need to be doing this, what we need is a culture of trust where the postie knows he can work at a fair pace and if he has to cut off the manager wont be down their throat and will have something in place to get that mail delivered.

[Brandy]

One of the funniest things I ever heard was when we used to have bikes and a manager decided to come out and shadow a postie,he couldnt even keep up with the postie on his bike!!!

[clashcityrocker]

The manager, nor you, can disagree with the mighty scales.

Many years ago when there was still a second delivery, there was an agreement in place that for every kilo over 5kg you could claim 30 minutes extended delivery. (It was something like that. I forget the exact parameters)
So they used to put bricks in the bottom of their bags and take them to be weighed.
Like you say - you can't argue with the scales. Happy faces.

[Postie45]

The manager, nor you, can disagree with the mighty scales.

Many years ago when there was still a second delivery, there was an agreement in place that for every kilo over 5kg you could claim 30 minutes extended delivery. (It was something like that. I forget the exact parameters)
So they used to put bricks in the bottom of their bags and take them to be weighed.
Like you say - you can't argue with the scales. Happy faces.

or "yeah, ill take this 1 extemely heavy parcel and leave 10 others behind."

[norris9]

Well yeah... my basic idea would need more refining and would obviously be a bit more specific than what I wrote. I won't bother writing a full detailed description of the whole concept, just floating about some ideas.

Posties putting bricks in bags or whatever else to weigh it down would likely get the boot, or 3 strikes and you're out.


I agree - Would be a lot easier if management just trusted Posties opinions and were fair, maybe a lot of them are.....

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

Using mail weight to decide how achievable a duty is an awful idea. Yes, some days you have loads of weighty magazines, but other days you could have many houses with a single pizza D2D or similar.

It's all about the call rate (how many of the duty's addresses actually have mail) that can be posted through letterboxes and how many attendance calls (where items are too big for the letterbox or need a signature) you have on any given day. And therein lies the problem, the amount of time saved compared to a 100% call rate will vary by some margin between a block of flats; terraced housing; suburban semis/detached; rural areas etc. All those deviations off the road add considerable distance and time to the delivery.

[norris9]

Using mail weight to decide how achievable a duty is an awful idea. Yes, some days you have loads of weighty magazines, but other days you could have many houses with a single pizza D2D or similar.

It's all about the call rate (how many of the duty's addresses actually have mail) that can be posted through letterboxes and how many attendance calls (where items are too big for the letterbox or need a signature) you have on any given day. And therein lies the problem, the amount of time saved compared to a 100% call rate will vary by some margin between a block of flats; terraced housing; suburban semis/detached; rural areas etc. All those deviations off the road add considerable distance and time to the delivery.

It may not be the best way to judge what can be delivered within your time....of course it would not be 100% accurate, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's at least 90% accurate in deciding if you can deliver in time. And ideally you would weight the letters without the parcels.

I find the heavier the bag, the slower I walk.

Distance would obviously play a part as well....the longer your walk is, the less letters/weight you would have to take with you. For an 8 mile walk you would have to maybe take 115KG, for a 12 mile walk you would have to maybe take 100KG.

I think weight is a hard indicator to judge until it is trialled.

[Marshamp11]

I find the heavier the bag, the slower I walk.
[/quote] Correct me if Im wrong but the heaviest the bag should ever be is 5kg or use an LWT.

[Celgar]

What we really need is ‘wilful delay’ abolished. It’s by far the biggest cause of the bullying culture in offices up and down the country, It’s continually used as a beating stick to force posties to go over their time. Let’s see you do something about this asap CWU, there’s absolutely no need for it in this day and age, we have pda actuals that accurately show where we are and at what speed we’re working.

We could have fixed AHDC terminals in every unit bypassing the need for managers to withhold overtime to meet budgets, and also bypassing the weekly cat and mouse games of chasing overtime that’s never going to be paid. Payroll would be automatic and accurate. You finish late, your paid overtime. You finish early, your paid until you swipe out. What’s that you say CWU? A fair days work for a fair days pay? Well this is how it’s achieved and it’s long overdue.

Both should be implemented at National level. There should be no punishment for rolling over the previous days work to the next day if work has been over allocated! This would make managers staff the office properly in the first place and sort out the unfare imbalance between duties in every office.

I agree we need the AHDC fitted in every DO or failing that a clocking in & out system that can't be 'played'. This will show in most or a lot of cases that the walks cannot be completed in duty time.
What I have written above is probably the main reason why we will not get the AHDC or an accurate clocking in and out system. RM knows the state of play and that they are on the winning side.