No seat belt

Ren Hoëk · Post by **Ren Hoëk** » 16 Apr 2019, 16:59

Ciderboy1957 wrote:Appreciate all advice and comments gents . There is history between me and management , conduct clear as I said despite numerous erroneous charges so I think they are attempting to profile me and see this has an opportunity to go for the " kill " so to speak

Mate, it's disgusting the way you are being treated. We all from time to time have not worn our seatbelts. Your boss will know this. Almost certainly be guilty of it himself. A polite warning would have done it with a brief the next day for everyone else. If it happened again and again then thats a diff matter. It def sounds like they are using it to get at you for previous and are gunning for ya. Best of luck mate.

robbertwhitton · Post by **robbertwhitton** » 16 Apr 2019, 17:16

Yes as I have said before,shame they don’t want to test the rounds as they should be done,correct delivery methods,safety seatbelts on stop start etc,I’ve heard of people being dismissed having left there seat belt plugged in to stop the noise,and as ever some continue to do it and get away with it and much more I can tell you,there happy to make the point as and when it suits them,looking after our safety?..I hope the union show some balls and challenge it and support you,

Post by **Navalron** » 17 Apr 2019, 09:16

Murdoch wrote:
clashcityrocker wrote: In the world of the grown ups, when you have done wrong you have to hold your hands up and take responsibility for your actions.
I am glad the OP did that. It might be the one thing that saves his job. It demonstrates a level of maturity and honesty lacking in so many people today.
It shows EVIDENCE of moral fibre.
That is something to be applauded.
Your argument would only carry any weight if this mistake was handled in a mature way by management.

It's truly pathetic to treat loyal and hard working staff in this manner, threatening a long serving member of staff with the sack, for forgetting to put on his seatbelt is absolutely pathetic.

If you're trying to create a working environment where "honesty" and "moral fibre" are traits you wish to promote. This is not how it's done.

Forget about maturity, this is about basic human decency, and understanding we're human not robots.

100% agree with you murdoch.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 17 Apr 2019, 14:52

Ren Hoëk wrote:

But clashcityrocker. Instead of questioning my credibility and attacking me as a person. How about attack the points im making. That would be the "grown up" thing to do.

I wasn't aware I had attacked you as a person. I think your advice is erroneous and childish. That is an attack on your advice not you.
And why can't I question your credibility? What experience do you have of representing a member facing dismissal? It is a simple question.

You don't seem to understand the difference between a court of law and an employment tribunal.
If you put your hand in a cookie jar, RM can sack you because it would be reasonable to believe you were going to take a cookie.
They wouldn't need to prove anything else.

If you go into a shop and put the cookie jar in your bag and walk around the shop with it, nobody will challenge you until you try and leave the shop because they need to prove that you have stolen the cookies.

In the seat belt case they have a witness to the misdemeanour. Lying wouldn't make a scrap of difference.
Now in this particular case the OPG obviously has had ongoing problems with management. That isn't going to help his case and is clearly why it is even a case.
In any other case lying would count against you. You would undermine your credibility as an honest person.
Honesty is a prerequisite for this job.
So your advice is s**t and it is dangerous.

lightningpostman · Post by **lightningpostman** » 17 Apr 2019, 14:55

best advice is stay honest , as its a sackable offense.

if you dont get on with the manager most likely they will persue it as dissmissal , they gain brownie points and earn a few stripes, especially if your ft as they will replace you with a pt newbie

Ren Hoëk · Post by **Ren Hoëk** » 17 Apr 2019, 15:26

If you put your hand in a cookie jar, RM can sack you because it would be reasonable to believe you were going to take a cookie.
They wouldn't need to prove anything else.

If you go into a shop and put the cookie jar in your bag and walk around the shop with it, nobody will challenge you until you try and leave the shop because they need to prove that you have stolen the cookies.

What on earth are you on about

Iv noticed people on this website like there odd and often irrelevant analogies but this one does take the biscuit.

I fully understand the difference between the two. If a company goes against the findings then an individual can escalate it to the courts. I don't think you seem to realise that in the case of the man accused of theft. The very fact they had no evidence of his thieving is what got him £56000. He may have lost his job but it was unfair, without cause and got him the payout. I wouldn't even want to work for a company if treated the way he was treated so I would consider that a win.

My advice may be "s**t" but evidently so is yours. The guy was honest and is now suspended. Where as if he had just told a quick, of the cuff little lie. Very unlikely boss man would have taken it any further. Knowing that all he had was his word against his. I don't take any notice of when my partners buckle up and de buckle. So as for witnesses im not sure they would have much there either.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 17 Apr 2019, 15:38

Whatever Ren. You know everything.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 19 Apr 2019, 22:51

Ciderboy, this happened to a guy at ours, managers waited for him to get back in yard and witnessed him with no belt.

Guy got suspended WITH pay for a long time, went through a lot of worry, and eventually KEPT his job.

Sounds like there’s history between you and management and they are looking to catch you far more than others.

Exactly the same as with this guy.

Post by **postiewhite** » 25 Apr 2019, 19:02

My manager would have just told me to belt up if she had seen me without a belt on. Its manager's discression of course but im sure a harsh telling off is reasonable.

Ciderboy1957 · Post by **Ciderboy1957** » 26 Apr 2019, 12:32

History is right ! But record clear !

has2tri · Post by **has2tri** » 26 Apr 2019, 18:11

Ren Hoëk if you face plant the windscreen will you still be spouting your little white lie.

Let's hope you never have an RTA. Law is wear a seatbelt so why wouldnt you wear it?

I suppose all those people that say 'I wasn't on my phone, honest guv' are fine with their little white lie too

Post by **Murdoch** » 26 Apr 2019, 23:01

has2tri wrote: Let's hope you never have an RTA. Law is wear a seatbelt so why wouldnt you wear it?

That's not the law. There are a number of exceptions. Two of which are relevant to RM.

1: a driver who is reversing
2: driving a goods vehicle on deliveries that is travelling no more than 50 metres between stops

Also, the absolute maximum punishment for not wearing a seatbelt in law is a 500 quid fine. Realistically, it's much smaller if you accept a fixed penalty fine and don't contest the charge.

Please take note that the law doesn't think not wearing a seatbelt should result in the punishment of loss of livelihood.

The point he was making was this... if Royal Mail Managers are going out of their way to be pr**s (which this manager clearly is). Why on earth should anybody make it easy for them.

Ren Hoëk · Post by **Ren Hoëk** » 26 Apr 2019, 23:20

has2tri wrote:Ren Hoëk if you face plant the windscreen will you still be spouting your little white lie.

Let's hope you never have an RTA. Law is wear a seatbelt so why wouldnt you wear it?

I suppose all those people that say 'I wasn't on my phone, honest guv' are fine with their little white lie too

Jeez, You've had a mare. Id suggest before you go in on someone at least take the time to properly assess their stance. Iv stated a number of times that I DO NOT CONDONE NOT WEARING A SEAT BELT!

has2tri · Post by **has2tri** » 27 Apr 2019, 16:33

I was referring to your suggestion on the 'little white lie'

Ren Hoëk · Post by **Ren Hoëk** » 27 Apr 2019, 16:39

has2tri wrote:I was referring to your suggestion on the 'little white lie'

Course you were

But feel free to see Murdoch's response.

But whilst we are creating strawman arguments. What if he had shunt and it launched him into orbit. Rendering him unable to complete his round and no way of telling his boss that he's gona have to cut off?