Seniority is a Joke

[antcpfc]

Our office has about 1/2 the staff long term and over 50. Once we all clear off it will fall apart as we still have the job and finish mentality of getting the inward sorting done and getting our duties prepped. Only a few out of the twenty or so recruited in the last ten years have anywhere near the aspeed or the drive to get a move on.
Like it or not that is a fact.

More evidence that the senior guys just do not get it! The job and finish mentality is what is killing this job for many people now. You are rushing around, cutting corners etc all to just have more added to the duties. Then the guys who do the job "properly" get it in the neck from management adding to the bullying and harassment culture. But F it right? Im all right jack.

PS, RM was here long before you and will be here long after you. All totally replaceable. Im sure your office will be fine once you retire/move on.

Hang on a minute. You can't have it both ways,either we are all f***ing useless workshy bastards or are running around cutting corners?
For what it's worth nobody starts early in our office and we all have our breaks. If the manager wants someone to move duty at short notice he will ask one of the more senior men because it's just not worth the hassle with the new lot who will deliberately be obstructive.

[Ren Hoëk]

Our office has about 1/2 the staff long term and over 50. Once we all clear off it will fall apart as we still have the job and finish mentality of getting the inward sorting done and getting our duties prepped. Only a few out of the twenty or so recruited in the last ten years have anywhere near the aspeed or the drive to get a move on.
Like it or not that is a fact.

More evidence that the senior guys just do not get it! The job and finish mentality is what is killing this job for many people now. You are rushing around, cutting corners etc all to just have more added to the duties. Then the guys who do the job "properly" get it in the neck from management adding to the bullying and harassment culture. But F it right? Im all right jack.

PS, RM was here long before you and will be here long after you. All totally replaceable. Im sure your office will be fine once you retire/move on.

Hang on a minute. You can't have it both ways,either we are all f***ing useless workshy bastards or are running around cutting corners?
For what it's worth nobody starts early in our office and we all have our breaks. If the manager wants someone to move duty at short notice he will ask one of the more senior men because it's just not worth the hassle with the new lot who will deliberately be obstructive.

You sound like a joy. Who's calling who "f***ing useless workshy bastards". Im certainly not. Sounds like you have a right bee in your bonnet. Doing the job properly as per the working guidelines doesn't make someone a "f***ing useless workshy bastard" and standing up for ones self and not allowing themselves to be pushed around and walked all over doesn't make them "deliberately obstructive".

[antcpfc]

The thread started off with posts about seniority and how the most senior get the easy jobs while the OP works his nuts off.
As for the rest of your post ,deliberately taking the piss and going slow is not standing up for yourself it's being a dick.Standing up for yourself is going out every strike day in 35 years even when having a large mortgage as I did when younger. You want a better duty ? Put the years in like those that some posters on here like to slag off.

hy did the union accept/propose the current seniority policy at Royal Mail? It is a complete and utter unfair pile of crap. There are many people in my office that basically take the p*** when it comes to taking time off for "sickness", it goes along the lines of they come in for 6 months, then they have 6 months on the sick (until their money drops). They do it every other year like clockwork and the union obviously protects them. Anyway, I and many others in my office have not had a day off in years, we work 5 days a week (sometimes 6) every week all year round, yet when it comes to seniority the people taking the p*** continue to get their sick time added to their time at Royal Mail, even though they aren't actually working at Royal Mail in that time.

[antcpfc]

Some nasty jealous folk on here, I started at the bottom 31 years ago Im now around the top 30 in my office.There are loads of folk on jobs better than mine who started after me, but they just f**k about don't have time for the sorting, need loops off everyday and finish way before me, but that's up to them its got nothing to do with me, I go in do my job then go home, sometimes I'm early sometimes I'm late that's life. I'm done with this site now to many moaners and folk who think the grass is greener. BYE

But that young 22 year old ( age I was when I started) should have your job because the manager likes him.

[Ren Hoëk]

The thread started off with posts about seniority and how the most senior get the easy jobs while the OP works his nuts off.
As for the rest of your post ,deliberately taking the piss and going slow is not standing up for yourself it's being a dick.Standing up for yourself is going out every strike day in 35 years even when having a large mortgage as I did when younger. You want a better duty ? Put the years in like those posters on here like to slag off.

Who is accusing people of "deliberately taking the piss and going slow ". I certainly haven't defended that behaviour? You seem to be the one suggesting if people don't do the job how you do it then they must be taking the piss.

But that young 22 year old ( age I was when I started) should have your job because the manager likes him.

But of course the manager wouldn't like them because they are slow, lazy and deliberately obstructive...

I bet you're the type of person to be quick to call someone a snowflake but the second your blinkered view of the world is threatened you throw a hissy. Case and point the hissy you seem to be throwing at the possibility of jobs being given on merit and ability (Like nearly all other businesses do) instead of just... patience.

[smok3y666]

Why did the union accept/propose the current seniority policy at Royal Mail? It is a complete and utter unfair pile of crap. There are many people in my office that basically take the p*** when it comes to taking time off for "sickness", it goes along the lines of they come in for 6 months, then they have 6 months on the sick (until their money drops). They do it every other year like clockwork and the union obviously protects them. Anyway, I and many others in my office have not had a day off in years, we work 5 days a week (sometimes 6) every week all year round, yet when it comes to seniority the people taking the p*** continue to get their sick time added to their time at Royal Mail, even though they aren't actually working at Royal Mail in that time.

The same goes for people who work one-two days (16-20 hours) a week completely unfair that as far as seniority is concerned a week at work for them is equivalent to a week at work for someone working 5-6 days (30+ hours) a week.

Why can't posties with good attendance records say 90% + a year be rewarded with an extra year seniority? Why can't seniority be based on the something fair like the amount of hours actually worked at Royal mail?

I remember that Royal mail tried to reward posites a while back with good attendance records by putting them into some stupid prize draw and that the Union complained it was punishing people on the sick, whereas most people would say it was rewarding people for the job they do. Nobody is saying punish people on the sick, all I am saying is reward people who actually come in and work. Why don't the union actually propose this to Royal mail? From my experience, they spend a lot of time and effort protecting lazy posties and do SFA to fight for posites that actually come in work their hours and have great attendance records.

Not read the whole thing but our union rep, the rep at my previous PF role and our current DOM have all said seniority is now classed as discrimination and should no longer be in the work place and IF it WAS challenged legally it would be thrown out. Not my words, just relaying what I heard.

[SpacePhoenix]

Why did the union accept/propose the current seniority policy at Royal Mail? It is a complete and utter unfair pile of crap. There are many people in my office that basically take the p*** when it comes to taking time off for "sickness", it goes along the lines of they come in for 6 months, then they have 6 months on the sick (until their money drops). They do it every other year like clockwork and the union obviously protects them. Anyway, I and many others in my office have not had a day off in years, we work 5 days a week (sometimes 6) every week all year round, yet when it comes to seniority the people taking the p*** continue to get their sick time added to their time at Royal Mail, even though they aren't actually working at Royal Mail in that time.

The same goes for people who work one-two days (16-20 hours) a week completely unfair that as far as seniority is concerned a week at work for them is equivalent to a week at work for someone working 5-6 days (30+ hours) a week.

Why can't posties with good attendance records say 90% + a year be rewarded with an extra year seniority? Why can't seniority be based on the something fair like the amount of hours actually worked at Royal mail?

I remember that Royal mail tried to reward posites a while back with good attendance records by putting them into some stupid prize draw and that the Union complained it was punishing people on the sick, whereas most people would say it was rewarding people for the job they do. Nobody is saying punish people on the sick, all I am saying is reward people who actually come in and work. Why don't the union actually propose this to Royal mail? From my experience, they spend a lot of time and effort protecting lazy posties and do SFA to fight for posites that actually come in work their hours and have great attendance records.

Not read the whole thing but our union rep, the rep at my previous PF role and our current DOM have all said seniority is now classed as discrimination and should no longer be in the work place and IF it WAS challenged legally it would be thrown out. Not my words, just relaying what I heard.

Even though seniority is length of service?

[deltaforce]

Discriminating against what? It’s based on length of service, it’s open to all ,and you all get a go at being senior. All you have to do is go to work each day and you all get seniority credit, day by day week by week and so on. No favourites, no underhand tactics, all open to scrutiny. With PDA actuals and van trackers in action now I wouldn’t worry about unequal deliveries in the future.
S

[postslippete]

A delivery of Backs to backs can literally have a thousand delivery points, whilst 3 miles away in leafy suburbia each house has it own gated entrance

Hopefully with the data produced by PDA actuals it should be possible for RM to actually know, and have proof, of how long Posties are actually spending Delivering their Duties. Regardless of whether they're delivering to Back to Backs or Large Detached Houses.

Although I don't trust RM (or more accurately certain DOMs not to use this data to try and bully some individuals) I hope the PDA Actuals are used to equal out the time spent "Out on Delivery". I'm not afraid of this data because I know I'm working all the hours I'm paid, and I'm not taking the piss! We all know Posties that are, and in my particualr DO it's the Senior Guys (which links in to Seniority because they've deliberately Re-Picked the "Easy" Duties that most of them have been on literally for Decades in some cases)! These same individuals are now Bricking It because the DOM has started talking about the Out Door element being looked at using the PDA Actuals ...... we've started seeing a few people dragging their heels a bit so they don't finish 90 mins early every day. Knowing the way technology works I'm sure RM aren't going to be so stupid to just look at the couple of days that the Survey is going to take, hopefully they'll look at an average over the last month or so? Probably not though knowing how incompetent they are.

Another major problem in our DO is the Balance between the Indoor Element and the Out Door Element. We have the "Runners" coming in Early (often being paid to open up and do early IPS & Parcels).... Throwing off their own duties... Chasing everyone else to quickly sort the remaining IPS/Parcels...... rushing to get out the door...... cutting corners and using incorect practices..... so they can finish 60-90 mins early, on a regular basis. They've recently been moaning at WTLL that the IPS sorting and Lapsing isn't Fair and they're doing more than others. It had to be pointed out that they had more Indoor Work & more Lapsing deliberately because they didn't have enough work on their Mickey Mouse Duties to keep them out until their Contracted Finish times. I don't believe it's Seniority that's the Problem, it's Inefficient/Incompetent Management that's the Problem.

Absolutely spot on The fact that there are a few duties at our depot that are absolutely massive and a few that are just way too short is down to incompetent management that allows duties to remain like that and take the easy option of doing nothing.

[arnold cheshire]

Some nasty jealous folk on here, I started at the bottom 31 years ago Im now around the top 30 in my office.There are loads of folk on jobs better than mine who started after me, but they just f**k about don't have time for the sorting, need loops off everyday and finish way before me, but that's up to them its got nothing to do with me, I go in do my job then go home, sometimes I'm early sometimes I'm late that's life. I'm done with this site now to many moaners and folk who think the grass is greener. BYE

well said

[SpacePhoenix]

A delivery of Backs to backs can literally have a thousand delivery points, whilst 3 miles away in leafy suburbia each house has it own gated entrance

Hopefully with the data produced by PDA actuals it should be possible for RM to actually know, and have proof, of how long Posties are actually spending Delivering their Duties. Regardless of whether they're delivering to Back to Backs or Large Detached Houses.

Although I don't trust RM (or more accurately certain DOMs not to use this data to try and bully some individuals) I hope the PDA Actuals are used to equal out the time spent "Out on Delivery". I'm not afraid of this data because I know I'm working all the hours I'm paid, and I'm not taking the piss! We all know Posties that are, and in my particualr DO it's the Senior Guys (which links in to Seniority because they've deliberately Re-Picked the "Easy" Duties that most of them have been on literally for Decades in some cases)! These same individuals are now Bricking It because the DOM has started talking about the Out Door element being looked at using the PDA Actuals ...... we've started seeing a few people dragging their heels a bit so they don't finish 90 mins early every day. Knowing the way technology works I'm sure RM aren't going to be so stupid to just look at the couple of days that the Survey is going to take, hopefully they'll look at an average over the last month or so? Probably not though knowing how incompetent they are.

Another major problem in our DO is the Balance between the Indoor Element and the Out Door Element. We have the "Runners" coming in Early (often being paid to open up and do early IPS & Parcels).... Throwing off their own duties... Chasing everyone else to quickly sort the remaining IPS/Parcels...... rushing to get out the door...... cutting corners and using incorect practices..... so they can finish 60-90 mins early, on a regular basis. They've recently been moaning at WTLL that the IPS sorting and Lapsing isn't Fair and they're doing more than others. It had to be pointed out that they had more Indoor Work & more Lapsing deliberately because they didn't have enough work on their Mickey Mouse Duties to keep them out until their Contracted Finish times. I don't believe it's Seniority that's the Problem, it's Inefficient/Incompetent Management that's the Problem.

Absolutely spot on The fact that there are a few duties at our depot that are absolutely massive and a few that are just way too short is down to incompetent management that allows duties to remain like that and take the easy option of doing nothing.

The indoor element, the outdoor element or both?

[antcpfc]

The thread started off with posts about seniority and how the most senior get the easy jobs while the OP works his nuts off.
As for the rest of your post ,deliberately taking the piss and going slow is not standing up for yourself it's being a dick.Standing up for yourself is going out every strike day in 35 years even when having a large mortgage as I did when younger. You want a better duty ? Put the years in like those posters on here like to slag off.

Who is accusing people of "deliberately taking the piss and going slow ". I certainly haven't defended that behaviour? You seem to be the one suggesting if people don't do the job how you do it then they must be taking the piss.

But that young 22 year old ( age I was when I started) should have your job because the manager likes him.

But of course the manager wouldn't like them because they are slow, lazy and deliberately obstructive...

I bet you're the type of person to be quick to call someone a snowflake but the second your blinkered view of the world is threatened you throw a hissy. Case and point the hissy you seem to be throwing at the possibility of jobs being given on merit and ability (Like nearly all other businesses do) instead of just... patience.

Now it's merit and ability? That would be fine because as a I said before the new lot would be bottom of the list.

[antcpfc]

Some nasty jealous folk on here, I started at the bottom 31 years ago Im now around the top 30 in my office.There are loads of folk on jobs better than mine who started after me, but they just f**k about don't have time for the sorting, need loops off everyday and finish way before me, but that's up to them its got nothing to do with me, I go in do my job then go home, sometimes I'm early sometimes I'm late that's life. I'm done with this site now to many moaners and folk who think the grass is greener. BYE

well said

No mate apparently Royal Mail is the only firm firm in this country that gives any extra benefits to long term employees.

[Ren Hoëk]

Some nasty jealous folk on here, I started at the bottom 31 years ago Im now around the top 30 in my office.There are loads of folk on jobs better than mine who started after me, but they just f**k about don't have time for the sorting, need loops off everyday and finish way before me, but that's up to them its got nothing to do with me, I go in do my job then go home, sometimes I'm early sometimes I'm late that's life. I'm done with this site now to many moaners and folk who think the grass is greener. BYE

well said

No mate apparently Royal Mail is the only firm firm in this country that gives any extra benefits to long term employees.

I like that we are finally agreeing that the walks are unequal and as such you would welcome the PDA actuals to level them out.

Now it's merit and ability? That would be fine because as a I said before the new lot would be bottom of the list.

Again, Im glad we are agreeing that jobs should be given on Merit and ability. Not that it should matter because all of the walks should be equal.

Though all of this was not the point I was trying to make with you when I started replying to your comments. I don't really have a beef with seniority being used to pick walks. I do think there should be no perceived easy or hard walks though. They should all be equal regardless of how long you've worked for the company. Someone said that everyone would get a chance at being senior. Which is not true as people start working for the company at different ages. Im 32. I have 11 years service. We have people in there mid 40 and 50's in our place who only a 2/3 years.

My issue with you was your attitude towards other people in the office. If they weren't doing it like you then they were "Lazy, obstructive, f***ing useless workshy bastards". Classic bully.

[burslemlad]

I have recently been medically retired after over 35 years in the job. When I started I accepted seniority as part and parcel. I didn't moan about senior people who had better duties, better holiday picks or were off work due to ill health. I didn't expect rewarding for being fortunate to be well. Like most I just got on with the job in the knowledge that I would get the benefits of seniority as time went by.