Seniority is a Joke

[Dorset Plodder]

A delivery of Backs to backs can literally have a thousand delivery points, whilst 3 miles away in leafy suburbia each house has it own gated entrance

Hopefully with the data produced by PDA actuals it should be possible for RM to actually know, and have proof, of how long Posties are actually spending Delivering their Duties. Regardless of whether they're delivering to Back to Backs or Large Detached Houses.

Although I don't trust RM (or more accurately certain DOMs not to use this data to try and bully some individuals) I hope the PDA Actuals are used to equal out the time spent "Out on Delivery". I'm not afraid of this data because I know I'm working all the hours I'm paid, and I'm not taking the piss! We all know Posties that are, and in my particualr DO it's the Senior Guys (which links in to Seniority because they've deliberately Re-Picked the "Easy" Duties that most of them have been on literally for Decades in some cases)! These same individuals are now Bricking It because the DOM has started talking about the Out Door element being looked at using the PDA Actuals ...... we've started seeing a few people dragging their heels a bit so they don't finish 90 mins early every day. Knowing the way technology works I'm sure RM aren't going to be so stupid to just look at the couple of days that the Survey is going to take, hopefully they'll look at an average over the last month or so? Probably not though knowing how incompetent they are.

Another major problem in our DO is the Balance between the Indoor Element and the Out Door Element. We have the "Runners" coming in Early (often being paid to open up and do early IPS & Parcels).... Throwing off their own duties... Chasing everyone else to quickly sort the remaining IPS/Parcels...... rushing to get out the door...... cutting corners and using incorect practices..... so they can finish 60-90 mins early, on a regular basis. They've recently been moaning at WTLL that the IPS sorting and Lapsing isn't Fair and they're doing more than others. It had to be pointed out that they had more Indoor Work & more Lapsing deliberately because they didn't have enough work on their Mickey Mouse Duties to keep them out until their Contracted Finish times. I don't believe it's Seniority that's the Problem, it's Inefficient/Incompetent Management that's the Problem.

[Redacer]

Very well put.

I do feel however Seniority is the problem. It is the ultimate discrimination. Where do you stop. You could say that if a person is older, well not older but have been in place longer than others, they can pick and chose what they can do. Managers and I do mean good managers have their hands tied as this medieval practice overrides all others.

I do find it amusing that the people who have had it easy are now looking over their shoulders. It must be difficult trying to go slow and missing the start of Jeremy Kyle.

[Woody Guthrie]

they can pick and chose what they can do.

I don't know how seniority works in your office but in mine it only allows members the ability to pick a delivery route, it doesn't allow members to pick and choose what they can do indoors.

To be fair our rurals are as long if not longer than the P&L duties and the only reason the more senior guys pick them is because they are physically slightly less demanding.

[Redacer]

Good point Woody. I feel however that if somebody has given good service and on merit with their knowledge they should be in pole position to be considered for vacant positions and they should get it. I do not however agree with a person with dubious service, who is more interested with what anybody else is doing, at every opportunity complains and disrupts, gets the premium easy jobs just because they have been there the longest.

This is wrong and as the post says, is a joke.

[Acca Dacca]

Good point Woody. I feel however that if somebody has given good service and on merit with their knowledge they should be in pole position to be considered for vacant positions and they should get it. I do not however agree with a person with dubious service, who is more interested with what anybody else is doing, at every opportunity complains and disrupts, gets the premium easy jobs just because they have been there the longest.

This is wrong and as the post says, is a joke.

So leave it up to the manager alone to decide who gets what?

Thats a great idea.......

[DGH]

So leave it up to the manager alone to decide who gets what?

Thats a great idea.......

Well that would provide a very powerful incentive for the staff to demand equalised walks, wouldn't it?

I can't think of many businesses that aren't operating as pseudo-franchises where the manager would not allocate duties according to aptitude, experience (including need to gain wider) and skills.

[deltaforce]

So leave it up to the manager alone to decide who gets what?

Thats a great idea.......

Well that would provide a very powerful incentive for the staff to demand equalised walks, wouldn't it?

I can't think of many businesses that aren't operating as pseudo-franchises where the manager would not allocate duties according to aptitude, experience (including need to gain wider) and skills.

As far as Rm are concerned most walking/ delivery duties are of a equal skill set ,if you can do one you can do most of them. So how to you separate then who gets what?

[antcpfc]

Our office has about 1/2 the staff long term and over 50. Once we all clear off it will fall apart as we still have the job and finish mentality of getting the inward sorting done and getting our duties prepped. Only a few out of the twenty or so recruited in the last ten years have anywhere near the aspeed or the drive to get a move on.
Like it or not that is a fact.

[Villadaft]

Our office has about 1/2 the staff long term and over 50. Once we all clear off it will fall apart as we still have the job and finish mentality of getting the inward sorting done and getting our duties prepped. Only a few out of the twenty or so recruited in the last ten years have anywhere near the aspeed or the drive to get a move on.
Like it or not that is a fact.

Yep same in mine pal

[Ren Hoëk]

Our office has about 1/2 the staff long term and over 50. Once we all clear off it will fall apart as we still have the job and finish mentality of getting the inward sorting done and getting our duties prepped. Only a few out of the twenty or so recruited in the last ten years have anywhere near the aspeed or the drive to get a move on.
Like it or not that is a fact.

More evidence that the senior guys just do not get it! The job and finish mentality is what is killing this job for many people now. You are rushing around, cutting corners etc all to just have more added to the duties. Then the guys who do the job "properly" get it in the neck from management adding to the bullying and harassment culture. But F it right? Im all right jack.

PS, RM was here long before you and will be here long after you. All totally replaceable. Im sure your office will be fine once you retire/move on.

[Tman]

where the manager would not allocate duties according to aptitude, experience (including need to gain wider) and skills.

That's the problem. Possibly 200 members of staff and someone has to assess their individual "skills" and aptitude on a regular basis?
Like that could/would ever be done in a way that's seen to be fair to all.

[DGH]

Other mass employers manage it.

But if RM couldn't, here's another system.

Put routes in groups of 5. Have 6 posties rotate every ten weeks through those jobs.

So if you were Postie One you might do:

Weeks 1-10 on job one
Weeks 11-20 on job two
Weeks 21-30 on job three
Weeks 31-40 on job four
Weeks 41-50 on job five
Weeks 51, 52 and 1-8 of the next year as floater for jobs one to five.

Now obviously you will have offices where a neat 6 rotations doesn't work out, or where you have, say, three jobs 'leftover. But it doesn't matter, the principle works even if you had a set of eight jobs and rotated every ten weeks.

When a postie leaves the business, their replacement simply slots into their job.

What'd be unfair about that? And wouldn't it ensure that jobs within a set got as equalised as possible quite quickly? You'd also ensure a decent spread of knowledge because, contrary to what someone above thinks, quite a few deliveries within RM do need specific knowledge to be completed efficiently in the time allowed.

You could even use seniority within that system to determine picks for the initial sets.

[Dorset Plodder]

Other mass employers manage it.

But if RM couldn't, here's another system.

Put routes in groups of 5. Have 6 posties rotate every ten weeks through those jobs..

Before my time, but I believe they used to work in 4 man Teams rotating the duties. Don't know if it was weekly, but the OLD Boys said it certainly equalled out the duties pretty quick. It wasn't in anyone's interest to have an "Easy" Duty, or a "Hard" Duty because they all had to do them. I'd vote for this system, if purely to see the looks of horror on some of our "Runners" faces, especially the ones that haven't done a different duty for the last 10 years!

[Villadaft]

Some nasty jealous folk on here, I started at the bottom 31 years ago Im now around the top 30 in my office.There are loads of folk on jobs better than mine who started after me, but they just f**k about don't have time for the sorting, need loops off everyday and finish way before me, but that's up to them its got nothing to do with me, I go in do my job then go home, sometimes I'm early sometimes I'm late that's life. I'm done with this site now to many moaners and folk who think the grass is greener. BYE

[Acca Dacca]

So leave it up to the manager alone to decide who gets what?

Thats a great idea.......

Well that would provide a very powerful incentive for the staff to demand equalised walks, wouldn't it?

I can't think of many businesses that aren't operating as pseudo-franchises where the manager would not allocate duties according to aptitude, experience (including need to gain wider) and skills.

Who do you think the manager would look after?

The guy starting at the correct time, doing the job as it should be done and working his hours or the guy coming in early, running round, doing the job wrong and doing ghost overtime?

Think about it

All it would do is drag everyone down to a poor standard and incentivise arse kissing