Seniority is a Joke

[postslippete]

The fact that you get more weeks annual leave the longer you have worked there should be a decent enough reward for long service in my view. But regardless of who picked what in an office there should still be a full and frank revision of all the duties every 2 years or so. That would prevent a situation from developing where those guys thought they were signing up to a 'cushy' duty for years on end. You're never going to please everyone but only by having an ongoing revision will at least accommodate any new builds and estates that sprout up. Surely by balancing out walks in an office will not only be fair but also more productive. It depends, of course, how well an office is managed for that to happen.

Oh, and reward the guys that give good attendance week in-week out and just watch how sickness levels improve by taking all these measures on board. Not really rocket science is it?

So some poor soul gets cancer one year and needs time off, you're going to punish them by giving them a worse pick than a healthy person.
Rubbish we all start at the bottom of the seniority list and work our way up, I never understand how some folk can't grasp that.

You've got the wrong end of the stick. When I said "revision" I didn't mean another re-sign and re-pick for a completely different duty - what I meant was a revision of all the duties that posties are doing to account for changes in delivery, for example, new builds which in many cases can account for a whole new housing estate. What I'm saying is that the posties will all still be on their own deliveries but with a revision to balance all the duties out in the office. Yes, we know there will always be some guys who cheat themselves or are way quicker than others but one or two of the duties in our office are just massively bigger than many others, and its clear for all to see. Does what I am saying sound fair to you?

[postslippete]

The rewarding of good attendance is a minefield of legal difficulties which is why RM pulled the "win a car" scheme and why most major employers stay well away.

It also encourages staff to come to work with genuine illnesses which is dangerous for the individual and has a knock on effect due to the spread of illness through a unit.

You do nobody any favours by coming in when you're ill, not you, your colleagues or the business.
More zero than hero.

Yeah I know what you're saying Woody, some guys can't help just falling ill on that Saturday morning and we are out in all weathers after all.....Maybe a new car is a bit extreme but there are other ways and certainly if my bosses praised my efforts or even just thanked me for a hard days work then that could be an incentive enough for me.

[SpacePhoenix]

Seniority probably has more of an affect in DOs than it does in MCs. In a DO some walks will be shittier than others but anyone could be expected to do any aspect of the indoor work (apart from the SD locker or callers - are they both classed as specialist duties?). In a MC anyone can be expected to cover any work apart from anything where you need training (things like revenue, mech or SD locker)

[Dorset Plodder]

Right. It wouldn't be terrible.

You only have to look through this forum and see all the comments about 'favourites' to see that favouritism is a widespread problem, real or perceived. Yet seniority merely avoids addressing that problem, it doesn't solve it (if it did people wouldn't be moaning about it).

Seniority has some merit. But it's at best acting mitigating favouritism to a degree. However it's also actively preventing any incentive amongst staff to make sure walks are balanced. That's just as unfair and anything that seniority promotes. Indeed, why should it be new and junior staff, often with insecure job tenure, who are having to argue the toss daily with managers because their walks are too big? Especially while senior colleagues who have achievable walks, or sometimes walks with spare time available, and who are in a much better position to argue if necessary (because of their experience and greater job security) don't have to do that.

Seniority worked best when the majority of people were joining RM before the age of 30 (generally before 25) and working for RM until retirement. Them days is gone.

Because of my particular circumstances, the negative aspects of seniority have never particularly impacted upon me and I now have plenty, but I see junior staff constantly harassed and struggling while their senior colleagues shrug and look on. It's a shame.

Well said DGH. I agree. Imagine a Business/Company where the Senior Guys actually were a "Force for Good" and helped to shape their DO into a place that was nice to work in? With a massive workforce (larger than the Army nowadays) it would be wrong to generalise, and I'm sure there's loads of Senior Posties who do help out their more Junior colleagues, however there does seem to be a Hard Core of Senior Posties in many DOs that stick to the RM Motto of "I'm alright Jack f**k You"!

I believe half the problem is the Incompetance of RM Management. The Majority are totally unqualified, and unsuitable, for the task at hand. At the lower end they're in charge of 20 or so posties, moving up to several hundred in the big DOs. In the Forces it would take you time, and experience, with several training courses to reach even the relatively low levels of management. We offer fairly low wages (not much more than a Postie) and accept basically anyone that applies.

Do you really believe these people can sort all the difficult personell problems that arise due to Seniority? They work on the basis of EWO (Easy Way Out) and try to avoid confrontation at all costs. This is why favouritism flourishes, and unfair practises survive. TBH they are fighting with one hand tied behind their back, because they have very little "Real" Power. They get Shite from Below, and Shite from Above. So is it any wonder they just put in minimum commitment and sneak off home as soon as they can. It seems the major factor that is capable of effecting how well DOs are working (and how Posties are being treated) is the standard of Manager. Perhaps RM should be looking at improving their Training, and Selection of DOMs.

[scoobydo79]

Postie45 is correct.The senior guys haven’t always been senior.They have earnt it.They had to float when they first started.They had to go into rotates (remember them?) including nights and lates.They will also be the same guys that fought for the conditions people enjoy in Royal Mail today.

There you go - you have earned an easier life - utter bollox.

Makes my piss boil

Where does it say anything that suggests an easy life? I’d love to hear Your opinion on seniority when You’ve done 40 years in the job lol

[Kurteye]

I wish it went off seniority in our office. New starters and part timers that are slow or can’t do the job getting duties ahead of workers that have put in many years service. I went 5 years without sick leave, have never received a warning and clear out most of the time, but they want to give part timers the rounds. Also are union rep (hasn’t delivered a letter in 2 years) is part time so only helps them or his mates. Seriously getting to the end of my tether with the place.

[postslippete]

I wish it went off seniority in our office. New starters and part timers that are slow or can’t do the job getting duties ahead of workers that have put in many years service. I went 5 years without sick leave, have never received a warning and clear out most of the time, but they want to give part timers the rounds. Also are union rep (hasn’t delivered a letter in 2 years) is part time so only helps them or his mates. Seriously getting to the end of my tether with the place.

What does your Union rep do then if they are not delivering letters?? Managing the office??

[arnold cheshire]

How can one duty have 320 houses and another have 620 ?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

A delivery of Backs to backs can literally have a thousand delivery points, whilst 3 miles away in leafy suburbia each house has it own gated entrance

[arnold cheshire]

A delivery of Backs to backs can literally have a thousand delivery points, whilst 3 miles away in leafy suburbia each house has it own gated entrance

not quite what I'm getting at . Maybe 10 farms and rurals on one in ours and normal cul-de-sac Streets etc on the 320

[arnold cheshire]

Others with 250 normal and 30 farms . Second duty 620 and pairing 580 drops

[kookoo32]

The rewarding of good attendance is a minefield of legal difficulties which is why RM pulled the "win a car" scheme and why most major employers stay well away.

It also encourages staff to come to work with genuine illnesses which is dangerous for the individual and has a knock on effect due to the spread of illness through a unit.

You do nobody any favours by coming in when you're ill, not you, your colleagues or the business.
More zero than hero.

I remember years ago when they gave you holiday vouchers for not having a day off in X months. Think it was when Allan Leighton was chairman and the whole thing was rigged so you couldn't use them. They could only be used at certain locations and at certain times of the year - usually when you didn't have holidays. I wonder if anyone else remembers these?

[arnold cheshire]

The rewarding of good attendance is a minefield of legal difficulties which is why RM pulled the "win a car" scheme and why most major employers stay well away.

It also encourages staff to come to work with genuine illnesses which is dangerous for the individual and has a knock on effect due to the spread of illness through a unit.

You do nobody any favours by coming in when you're ill, not you, your colleagues or the business.
More zero than hero.

I remember years ago when they gave you holiday vouchers for not having a day off in X months. Think it was when Allan Leighton was chairman and the whole thing was rigged so you couldn't use them. They could only be used at certain locations and at certain times of the year - usually when you didn't have holidays. I wonder if anyone else remembers these?

Yes I never used them but went on holiday three times a year

[Villadaft]

The fact that you get more weeks annual leave the longer you have worked there should be a decent enough reward for long service in my view. But regardless of who picked what in an office there should still be a full and frank revision of all the duties every 2 years or so. That would prevent a situation from developing where those guys thought they were signing up to a 'cushy' duty for years on end. You're never going to please everyone but only by having an ongoing revision will at least accommodate any new builds and estates that sprout up. Surely by balancing out walks in an office will not only be fair but also more productive. It depends, of course, how well an office is managed for that to happen.

Oh, and reward the guys that give good attendance week in-week out and just watch how sickness levels improve by taking all these measures on board. Not really rocket science is it?

So some poor soul gets cancer one year and needs time off, you're going to punish them by giving them a worse pick than a healthy person.
Rubbish we all start at the bottom of the seniority list and work our way up, I never understand how some folk can't grasp that.

You've got the wrong end of the stick. When I said "revision" I didn't mean another re-sign and re-pick for a completely different duty - what I meant was a revision of all the duties that posties are doing to account for changes in delivery, for example, new builds which in many cases can account for a whole new housing estate. What I'm saying is that the posties will all still be on their own deliveries but with a revision to balance all the duties out in the office. Yes, we know there will always be some guys who cheat themselves or are way quicker than others but one or two of the duties in our office are just massively bigger than many others, and its clear for all to see. Does what I am saying sound fair to you?

No we start at the bottom and work our way up. To be fair its DDA who get first picks now anyways

[Kurteye]

I wish it went off seniority in our office. New starters and part timers that are slow or can’t do the job getting duties ahead of workers that have put in many years service. I went 5 years without sick leave, have never received a warning and clear out most of the time, but they want to give part timers the rounds. Also are union rep (hasn’t delivered a letter in 2 years) is part time so only helps them or his mates. Seriously getting to the end of my tether with the place.

What does your Union rep do then if they are not delivering letters?? Managing the office??

2 long term sick’s, then when he comes back light duties and then he does revisions for other offices sitting in managers office upstairs.