Seniority is a Joke

[Seymour Buts]

We all sign up knowing the crack. You're of course right, seniority means jack. Some of the laziest, useless bums are the most senior in our office. Just because you've been doing something a long time doesn't mean you're any good, but it is what it is. Deal with it.

[wacko74]

I feel seniority has become a less fair method in the modern day job.

The job has become much more physically demanding than ever before and as such can no longer be regarded as a ''job for life'' unless perhaps you've got freakishly healthy joints, so posties simply no longer have the ability to build up their seniority.

As a result we now seem to have the situation where the few cushy duties just remain in the hands of a few very long served posties usually aged well into their 50's and 60's all seemingly fit and healthy and some planning to carry on past retirement age, meanwhile there are posties 10 or 20 years younger who are forced to look for alternative work simply due to the physical toll the modern job has taken on their bodies.

And I don't buy into it that these most senior posties have ''earned it'' due to the time they've served... these posties have been doing the job since the days when they were finished at 10 a.m (or even earlier) and sat at home with their feet up... and in some cases their duties have barely altered since those days despite numerous revisions.

[arnold cheshire]

I feel seniority has become a less fair method in the modern day job.

The job has become much more physically demanding than ever before and as such can no longer be regarded as a ''job for life'' unless perhaps you've got freakishly healthy joints, so posties simply no longer have the ability to build up their seniority.

As a result we now seem to have the situation where the few cushy duties just remain in the hands of a few very long served posties usually aged well into their 50's and 60's all seemingly fit and healthy and some planning to carry on past retirement age, meanwhile there are posties 10 or 20 years younger who are forced to look for alternative work simply due to the physical toll the modern job has taken on their bodies.

And I don't buy into it that these most senior posties have ''earned it'' due to the time they've served... these posties have been doing the job since the days when they were finished at 10 a.m (or even earlier) and sat at home with their feet up... and in some cases their duties have barely altered since those days despite numerous revisions.

This topic was about going off sick for six months. Everyone earns seniority it's the planners that are at fault

[koolishy67]

Absolutely correct I never went on sick from last 4 years, my previous work we always get reward with good attended and performance.

[crimson king]

Seniority necessary in Royal Fail because 'Performance' will always be based on how early you come in, how much o/t you claim, how much time you spend hanging around lino office.

It is the only way of avoiding giving over complete control of appointments to a lazy and corrupt management

^^^ This, all day long

[south London postie]

It's interesting how things work in a job where there is effectively no promotion and, once made up, everyone gets paid the same.

How should it be decided who does which walk - tallest, youngest, smartest, best arse licker? And who makes those decisions?

Seniority is the means to an end.

I don't begrudge the people who have been in the job longest first choice - tbh, the job gets harder the older you get so if things are a little lighter, it goes a long way.

[postslippete]

Just my ha'pennies worth. Our last revision wasn't based purely on seniority but first choices went to those who qualified under the disability discrimination act. Ironically,there were a few on that list that made me sit up and think but I guess it's each to their own with their own doctors certificate to cover it. It's covered by law so royal mail managers must accommodate them.
What's strange us that our sickness levels went through the roof in recent times and one can only assume that there are a lot of people suffering in our organisation and I'm just one of the lucky ones.

I don't think you can discount seniority as like a few guys have said it's one of the only things that is true. You can't use 'performance' cause I know one or two favourites almost never get conducted not counselled over genuine mistakes whereas others do.

The only thing I totally agree with the original post is rewarding good attendance as I've got 100 per cent attendance from the last 5 years and believe me i've often felt like taking a sickie!!

[greengiant]

Define "Performance".

It's not difficult to judge performance. Not an exhaustive list, but some criteria I'd use to judge performance would include:

Valid Customer Complaints
Blameworthy Road Traffic Accidents
Vehicle Tracker Scores
Attendance (including lateness)
Scan failures (tracked / collections etc)
Missorts and mistakenly delivered mail
Redirection mistakes / failures

I mean, in any other company these sorts of things would matter when people get the opportunity of different contracts or roles etc.

Like I said, it's a fairly archaic way to operate, I think mainly due to the legacy of it being a fairly well unionised public service.

For those that hate the idea of any other criteria being used to make those sorts of decisions... what are your arguments against that?

Is it that Royal Mail simply can't operate like a normal business? And that seniority is the only fair way, because any "choice" would just enable managers to pick their favourites?

What about non drivers?
Or people who do drive, but their van doesn't have a Trimble? Postie A could have consistently high safety scores, but postie B whos van doesn't have a tracker. So how would you decide which postie is "safer"? You certainly couldn't use Trimble scores...
Or part timers who arrive to prepped but missorted mail?

What if a long term illness means an opg is often off work for treatment?

[Tman]

Pete, why didn't you? Nothing worse than those martyrs who come in coughing and sneezing and spreading it around to everyone else just so they can claim that they haven't been sick for X years.
The union fought for the rights of employees to have sick leave when they need it, so there's nothing clever about struggling in to work.

[Angardstaffing]

I agree 100% with your views. Whats so annoying at LEEDS MAIL CENTRE when jobs come up is regardless of your attendance record, the higher your seniority, the more likely you are to get a job.
It seems that regardless of your attitude, work ethic, puntuality and sickness record you will always be looked after by the union. Its a joke. It wouldnt happen in the real
world. Lets hope Rico Back gets a grip of this backward company and shakes up the business.

[greengiant]

I agree 100% with your views. Whats so annoying at LEEDS MAIL CENTRE when jobs come up is regardless of your attendance record, the higher your seniority, the more likely you are to get a job.
It seems that regardless of your attitude, work ethic, puntuality and sickness record you will always be looked after by the union. Its a joke. It wouldnt happen in the real
world. Lets hope Rico Back gets a grip of this backward company and shakes up the business.

And turn everyone into Angard agency workers?

[Angardstaffing]

No i was Angard worker 6 years ago, now on part time 20 hour contract trying to get a full time job. so i can get proper holiday pay and the night shift allowance whilst doing the same job as full timers.

[antcpfc]

I'm sure half the posters on here are management. They would love the opportunity to pick who gets what duty. All the crawlers,those that come in early and work for nothing and the DOM's mates would get what they want while those that stand up for themselves would get the s**t.

[SpacePhoenix]

The union fought for the rights of employees to have sick leave when they need it, so there's nothing clever about struggling in to work.

They probably don't want to risk ending up on a stage

[Murdoch]

What about non drivers?
Or people who do drive, but their van doesn't have a Trimble? Postie A could have consistently high safety scores, but postie B whos van doesn't have a tracker. So how would you decide which postie is "safer"? You certainly couldn't use Trimble scores...
Or part timers who arrive to prepped but missorted mail?

What if a long term illness means an opg is often off work for treatment?

Then common sense would apply. Like in any other workplace.

You coulnd't compare a non-drivers trimble scores, because they don't exist obviously. You could however compare two drivers, and if your trimble scores are consistently poor, it should probably count against you. Also, all van's will be having trackers fitted, which is only fair.

There should be consequences for poor performance. This is the only company I've worked for, where it doesn't matter at all, in the slightest.

Again, if you don't prep your frame, and take missorted mail back, you should be informing your manager, and that would count against the person that preps. I know first hand, the people that make the most mistakes, are the people that don't give a crap and do the job half assed.

Similarly, a disability would be taken into consideration, as it would be per the attendance procedures and shouldn't negatively affect that person.