Seniority is a Joke

twiddledumb · Post by **twiddledumb** » 09 Mar 2019, 15:37

Woody Guthrie wrote:
Why don't they go off the number of hours you actually work for Royal mail
Because it would be unlawful.

Really, what law is this then?

Post by **Murdoch** » 09 Mar 2019, 15:39

Gotta admit, it's a fairly archaic system. Rewarding people for being around a long time, should not be the only criteria used. Performance reviews should be factored in to the equation.

Length of service matters to an extent, sure. No other company operates in a manner where its the only consideration.

RM needs to move with the times.

twiddledumb · Post by **twiddledumb** » 09 Mar 2019, 15:44

Murdoch wrote:Gotta admit, it's a fairly archaic system. Rewarding people for being around a long time, should not be the only criteria used. Performance reviews should be factored in to the equation.

Length of service matters to an extent, sure. No other company operates in a manner where its the only consideration.

RM needs to move with the times.

Like I said the fact that someone working 16 hours a week for 5 years (4160 hours) has more seniority than someone working 30 hours a week for 4 years (6240 hours) is a joke.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 09 Mar 2019, 15:54

twiddledumb wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
Why don't they go off the number of hours you actually work for Royal mail
Because it would be unlawful.
Really, what law is this then?

The Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000

Post by **Murdoch** » 09 Mar 2019, 15:57

twiddledumb wrote: Like I said the fact that someone working 16 hours a week for 5 years (4160 hours) has more seniority than someone working 30 hours a week for 4 years (6240 hours) is a joke.

Agreed.

You could join as a reserve on shitty exploitative part-time contract, learn loads of rounds, be completely flexible, cover sickness late notice, never get a Saturday off. Work well beyond your exploitative contracted hours. Never receive a complaint, do everything properly to a high standard, always complete on time.

But, that counts for literally nothing.

The only thing that matters is how long you've been there.

twiddledumb · Post by **twiddledumb** » 09 Mar 2019, 16:07

Woody Guthrie wrote:
twiddledumb wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
Why don't they go off the number of hours you actually work for Royal mail
Because it would be unlawful.
Really, what law is this then?

The Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000

Ok so you have cited a law, now it would be great if you could show us where it states in this law that going by hours would be unlawful.
It's very funny because in my office part-timers have been getting screwed in all the 15+ years I have been at Royal mail with Full timers getting much more favourable treatment from Royal mail and the Union.

arnold cheshire · Post by **arnold cheshire** » 09 Mar 2019, 16:36

You get six months on full pay every four years and it's nothing to do with seniority

Post by **97gaz** » 09 Mar 2019, 16:39

Post by **azza30** » 09 Mar 2019, 17:07

What is a joke is so called senior full timers doing HCT walks that take as little as 2 hours, because of seniority in picking walks, and Part timers slung onto walks that take 5+ hours. I'm on rehab at the moment, 3 rows taking about 3.5 hours on a quiet ish day (not including break) which is still longer than the holy grail walks of the seniors. It's a joke.

Post by **97gaz** » 09 Mar 2019, 17:07

Post by **Murdoch** » 09 Mar 2019, 17:19

97gaz wrote:
I stared 22 years ago on an 18hour contract and worked mostly full time from day one but there were occasions where I was walking home after three hours because there was nothing for you to do.

You actually completely missed the point I was making...

You started on an 18 yet often worked full-time, covered 30 out of 50 rounds, etc etc.

However, a person that started a day before you and did none of the above... Would have dibs ahead of you on the first "better" contract that was made available. Because none of that s**t matters.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 09 Mar 2019, 17:24

Murdoch wrote:
twiddledumb wrote: You could join as a reserve on shitty exploitative part-time contract, learn loads of rounds, be completely flexible, cover sickness late notice, never get a Saturday off. Work well beyond your exploitative contracted hours. Never receive a complaint, do everything properly to a high standard, always complete on time.

But, that counts for literally nothing.

The only thing that matters is how long you've been there.

You think people who started 20+ years ago got assigned the best delivery in the office when starting ?

Those of us with seniority have ALL done our time of doing the crap walks, getting the crap overtime, being a reserve and being shifted 2-3 times in a morning, those of us that stuck around for YEARS of this eventually are rewarded for that. If you decided to show loyalty to RM and stick around through the crap you too can benefit for seniority, in the mean time pipe down and grind through like those of us with longer seniority have done. I never dreamed of complaining about this even when i was new because I recognised people have earned the right to "easier" deliveries and at some point i`d be given the same perk. People want everything handed to them on a plate these days, earn your seniority and then you will deserve it.

Post by **Murdoch** » 09 Mar 2019, 17:33

Postie45 wrote: You think people who started 20+ years ago got assigned the best delivery in the office when starting ?

Those of us with seniority have ALL done our time of doing the crap walks, getting the crap overtime, those of us that stuck around are now rewarded for that. If you decided to show loyalty to RM and stick around through the crap you too can benefit for seniority, in the mean time pipe down and grind through like those of us with longer seniority have done. I never dreamed of complaining about this even when i was new because I recognised people have earned the right to "easier" deliveries and at some point i`d be given the same perk. People want everything handed to them on a plate these days, earn your seniority and then you will deserve it.

Come on man, don't tell people to pipe down. You sound like a knob when you do that.

I'm expressing an opinion, have the decency to counter my opinion with reasoned arguments if you disagree. And please don't fall into the RM trap of making everything so personal. I'm making an argument against how RM operates, not the "dues" anybody in particular has paid, and I'm certainly not pissed off with my current situation. I'm on FT hours, and I'm happy with my role within the business.

Like I said, my opinion is that seniority plays a role, but it shouldn't be the only consideration.

arnold cheshire · Post by **arnold cheshire** » 09 Mar 2019, 17:43

twiddledumb wrote:Why did the union accept/propose the current seniority policy at Royal Mail? It is a complete and utter unfair pile of crap. There are many people in my office that basically take the p*** when it comes to taking time off for "sickness", it goes along the lines of they come in for 6 months, then they have 6 months on the sick (until their money drops). They do it every other year like clockwork and the union obviously protects them. Anyway, I and many others in my office have not had a day off in years, we work 5 days a week (sometimes 6) every week all year round, yet when it comes to seniority the people taking the p*** continue to get their sick time added to their time at Royal Mail, even though they aren't actually working at Royal Mail in that time.

The same goes for people who work one-two days (16-20 hours) a week completely unfair that as far as seniority is concerned a week at work for them is equivalent to a week at work for someone working 5-6 days (30+ hours) a week.

Why can't posties with good attendance records say 90% + a year be rewarded with an extra year seniority? Why can't seniority be based on the something fair like the amount of hours actually worked at Royal mail?

I remember that Royal mail tried to reward posites a while back with good attendance records by putting them into some stupid prize draw and that the Union complained it was punishing people on the sick, whereas most people would say it was rewarding people for the job they do. Nobody is saying punish people on the sick, all I am saying is reward people who actually come in and work. Why don't the union actually propose this to Royal mail? From my experience, they spend a lot of time and effort protecting lazy posties and do SFA to fight for posites that actually come in work their hours and have great attendance records.

What an idiot

Post by **greengiant** » 09 Mar 2019, 17:51

Murdoch wrote:Gotta admit, it's a fairly archaic system. Rewarding people for being around a long time, should not be the only criteria used. Performance reviews should be factored in to the equation.

Length of service matters to an extent, sure. No other company operates in a manner where its the only consideration.

RM needs to move with the times.

Define "Performance".