Unacceptable or racism?

number one · Post by **number one** » 03 Mar 2019, 18:49

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:I am just amazed and saddened how anyone can just casually dismiss this.

He helped a Polish Person, then a manager called him in a derogatory manner a "Pole Lover". Please explain to this SJW snowflake (as no doubt some now consider me) how that couldn't be seen as offensive.

It can be “offensive” but so can anything as being offended is subjective. Not racist though

yellowbelly · Post by **yellowbelly** » 03 Mar 2019, 20:26

number one wrote:
yellowbelly wrote:IMHO rather than discrimination it could come under Harrassment under the Equality Act 2010, Section 26: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

26 Harassment
(1)A person (A) harasses another (B) if—
(a)A engages in unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, and
(b)the conduct has the purpose or effect of—
(i)violating B's dignity, or
(ii)creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for B.

....

(5)The relevant protected characteristics are—
age;
disability;
gender reassignment;
race;
religion or belief;
sex;
sexual orientation.
Not for one comment

How many comments are needed?

From the ACAS website:

Bullying or harassment can be between two individuals or it may involve groups of people. It might be obvious or it might be insidious. It may be persistent or an isolated incident. It can also occur in written communications, by phone or through email, not just face-to-face

lambert246 · Post by **lambert246** » 03 Mar 2019, 22:26

I am with you 100% Trueblueterrior.
It is discrimination. It is racist and it is against the law.
I would go so far as to say that it is a serious conduct issue with potential dismissal for the LM.
If I had witnessed this I would put in a B&H for myself. Under the equality act it dosn't have to be the targeted individual who puts in a claim. It can be anyone who witnesses it and finds it offensive.
B&H. 35 days maximum for gateway to conclude investigation. ACAS at the same time as gateway.
Really simple process. Email ACAS. Talk to one of their representatives and get allocated a case number. They will inform RM the following day.
This tends to make management take it a bit more seriously than the usual lip service; buddy manager investigates and probably find the whole thing hilarious.
35 days after complaint lodged with gateway then ACAS to tribunal.
We have enough on our plate right now with the proposals & total disregard for the 4 pillars agreement without managers using derogatory terms.
Don't put up with discrimination in any way, shape or form.

UnhappyGremlin · Post by **UnhappyGremlin** » 04 Mar 2019, 00:17

It is racist.
It's also very innappropriate and very unacceptable.
And had the roles been reversed, I'd expect the Rep to have been suspended and conduct coded.
Not that the Rep would say this.

The manager should now be dealt with in the same manner.
Anybody who doesn't think this is racist, needs to educate themselves, or continue to look ignorant and stupid.

Chalky13 · Post by **Chalky13** » 04 Mar 2019, 05:59

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:I am just amazed and saddened how anyone can just casually dismiss this.

He helped a Polish Person, then a manager called him in a derogatory manner a "Pole Lover". Please explain to this SJW snowflake (as no doubt some now consider me) how that couldn't be seen as offensive.

I agree it is offensive and unacceptable.. Derogatory also. I was struggling to see it as racist, but thought it through...

I suppose you need to look at changing the word Pole? If the word black had been used, would that be seen more as racist? Would he have said the same thing if you’d stood up for a white, English man? Saying, you white lover, would that be racist?
And no doubt he wouldn’t have said anything at all.

Context matters also, because you can call a Polish person a Pole and it’s not racist. To use it as an insult, is.

As for number twos comments about it being a one off, that sort of idiotic comment sums up what is wrong with the union and his own previous self importance shown.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 04 Mar 2019, 09:30

UnhappyGremlin wrote:It is racist.
It's also very innappropriate and very unacceptable.
And had the roles been reversed, I'd expect the Rep to have been suspended and conduct coded.
Not that the Rep would say this.

The manager should now be dealt with in the same manner.
Anybody who doesn't think this is racist, needs to educate themselves, or continue to look ignorant and stupid.

The comment wasn't even said to the person who would have been most affected, namely the Polish person. As the post above shows...the Thought Police are coming...

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 04 Mar 2019, 11:24

But isn't using the "thought police" to counter an opposing view in of itself a "thought police" tactic.

Chalky13 · Post by **Chalky13** » 04 Mar 2019, 14:33

Tman wrote:
UnhappyGremlin wrote:It is racist.
It's also very innappropriate and very unacceptable.
And had the roles been reversed, I'd expect the Rep to have been suspended and conduct coded.
Not that the Rep would say this.

The manager should now be dealt with in the same manner.
Anybody who doesn't think this is racist, needs to educate themselves, or continue to look ignorant and stupid.

The comment wasn't even said to the person who would have been most affected, namely the Polish person. As the post above shows...the Thought Police are coming...

Thought police?? Because someone disagrees with you, that makes them wrong? Ffs

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 04 Mar 2019, 17:17

FFS yourself. It's nothing to do with disagreeing with me, but to do with the concept that someone made a pejorative comment about (not to) someone else, and so should be "educated" .
It was an unfunny stupid comment, but to call for suspension and Conduct Code? It's almost Stalinist.

Chalky13 · Post by **Chalky13** » 04 Mar 2019, 18:05

How can making a racist comment not deem a conduct?

Stalinist? Really? Are you on drugs or just so antiquated you still enjoy watching Alf Garnett

Post by **General Mannerheim** » 04 Mar 2019, 18:08

lambert246 wrote:I am with you 100% Trueblueterrior.
It is discrimination. It is racist and it is against the law.
I would go so far as to say that it is a serious conduct issue with potential dismissal for the LM.
If I had witnessed this I would put in a B&H for myself. Under the equality act it dosn't have to be the targeted individual who puts in a claim. It can be anyone who witnesses it and finds it offensive.
B&H. 35 days maximum for gateway to conclude investigation. ACAS at the same time as gateway.
Really simple process. Email ACAS. Talk to one of their representatives and get allocated a case number. They will inform RM the following day.
This tends to make management take it a bit more seriously than the usual lip service; buddy manager investigates and probably find the whole thing hilarious.
35 days after complaint lodged with gateway then ACAS to tribunal.
We have enough on our plate right now with the proposals & total disregard for the 4 pillars agreement without managers using derogatory terms.
Don't put up with discrimination in any way, shape or form.

Two excellent posts.

Keep up the good work,

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 04 Mar 2019, 21:17

Chalky13 wrote:How can making a racist comment not deem a conduct?

Stalinist? Really? Are you on drugs or just so antiquated you still enjoy watching Alf Garnett

You've clearly missed the point. The manager in question has been crass and ignorant but then so are many other people. It's human trait, so do they all need "educating" and Conduct Code-ing?
It's always disconcerting when some start calling for Draconian punishments for others and their minor indiscretions. I guess it harks back to the flaming torches and pitch-fork days.
Your last sentence is very telling though. Do you dismiss all who disagree with you as either drug users or "antiquated"?

Chalky13 · Post by **Chalky13** » 05 Mar 2019, 07:23

Tman wrote:
Chalky13 wrote:How can making a racist comment not deem a conduct?

Stalinist? Really? Are you on drugs or just so antiquated you still enjoy watching Alf Garnett
You've clearly missed the point. The manager in question has been crass and ignorant but then so are many other people. It's human trait, so do they all need "educating" and Conduct Code-ing?
It's always disconcerting when some start calling for Draconian punishments for others and their minor indiscretions. I guess it harks back to the flaming torches and pitch-fork days.
Your last sentence is very telling though. Do you dismiss all who disagree with you as either drug users or "antiquated"?

drumatics · Post by **drumatics** » 05 Mar 2019, 15:08

I was I’ll health retired from Royal Mail due to incidents like this and other issues that led me nearly to commit suicide.
No point going to union reps sorry, as in my case in Gateshead they were some of the ones that called me nig-nog, muslim, paki c***, your lot have been bombing again, Bin Laden etc. So glad I’ve left the company.
c***s sorry.

Post by **westy23** » 05 Mar 2019, 21:48

What a fuss over something so trivial and as for get acas involved, words fail me.
Yes it was unprofessional and a unnecessary comment but that’s about it.
Find something worth complaining about for fxxks sake.