People coming in for free?

[tommyrep]

Depends how you do it and what your office is like. Ours up untill last summer was job and knock; I'd come in an hour early Monday and Tuesday because I used to be finished between 11 - 12 which was fine. Now all that has gone so I don't bother. There's still those that do though simply because they can't complete their oversized walks without coming in early. That's ridiculous, and it makes those who might cover the duty look bad because they come in on time and go over. There are still people in our office that come in early and finish early, they're then sent back out! Totally mad.

A fair and accurate summary, similar to my place.
The point on people unable to complete a duty on time is very valid. Why do they do it? fear of ridicule and intimidation?
Horses for courses if you still get job and knock, that will encourage early starts. Any other reason sends out the wrong message to area bosses on duty or office achievements, either on budget or staffing levels. Worse still hours removed.

[Woody Guthrie]

They'll just see a number of people finishing a total of say 60hrs before their finish times and they'll take 60hrs out of the office,

Resourcing doesn't work like that.
As I've explained countless times you can't take hours out of an office unless you can show (with working) that they aren't needed.

If the resourcing tools say that a duty needs 2 hrs prep and 5 hrs delivery that's what it gets allocated, it doesn't matter if someone can do it ifaster or comes in early that's what it is allocated in the budget.

What early starters do is screw with the office EP so an office that might be underperforming because it has structural inefficiency could still be posting an EP over a hundred but that's why we have reps, to argue the case for genuine efficiency measurements.

A lot of blaming of early starters is actually just a smokescreen for poorly represented and weak offices with members who don't have each other's backs.

I don't start early and I don't encourage anyone else but I'm not stupid enough to blame all the woes of the world on early starters. Full-timers doing far too much overtime costs far more jobs.

[tommyrep]

They'll just see a number of people finishing a total of say 60hrs before their finish times and they'll take 60hrs out of the office,

Resourcing doesn't work like that.
As I've explained countless times you can't take hours out of an office unless you can show (with working) that they aren't needed.

If the resourcing tools say that a duty needs 2 hrs prep and 5 hrs delivery that's what it gets allocated, it doesn't matter if someone can do it ifaster or comes in early that's what it is allocated in the budget.

What early starters do is screw with the office EP so an office that might be underperforming because it has structural inefficiency could still be posting an EP over a hundred but that's why we have reps, to argue the case for genuine efficiency measurements.

A lot of blaming of early starters is actually just a smokescreen for poorly represented and weak offices with members who don't have each other's backs.

I don't start early and I don't encourage anyone else but I'm not stupid enough to blame all the woes of the world on early starters. Full-timers doing far too much overtime costs far more jobs.

Not going to argue on your post! You are right poor and weakly represented offices are more at risks to the unsavoury behaviour of unscrupulous DOMs. Non backing of colleagues is the everyday norm in many delivery offices and the DOMS only feed and thrive on it - and that is where and why people going in early put more pressure on the others it’s no smokescreen and anything presented as an argument or situation that involves taking on more staff is strongly disputed by senior managers. They will just bombarded the office with fabricated figures, because they are not founded on reality.
Only points I would take up are, does anyone at DO level or above take one blind bit of notice to ANY resourcing figures?
How many offices have a resourcing meeting? Who really understands the figures anyway, where’s the training for example.
Managers just piss on your leg while telling you it’s raining , and blinding you with fabricated facts and figures.
Figures and statistics are there to be argued over, but who holds the truth in their validity? Firmly in managements court as they manipulate them to suit themselves. Anyway, area management simply apply % savings from thin air, so long as it’s within the confines of their bonus criteria. Unachievable targets are knowingly set on staff and that invariably leads to the bullying culture experienced by many in delivery as the current spate of wildcat strikes indicate.
What about the DOs that have no reps?, there are plenty out there with no one interested in the post, it is a well known poisoned chalice. You cannot please everyone, ever, and the simple lack of any backing on the problems encountered that have no effect on the wide n varied characters in delivery means you are on loser and the DOMS know that, like asking them to start on time. To have some basis of uniformity and base staffing levels on, rather than have “so and so” can do it!
The result is they do as they like unchallenged, which may not be the case with you.

[SpacePhoenix]

Resourcing is done to budget, not workload, it's been like that for quite a while now

[Woody Guthrie]

Resourcing is done to budget, not workload, it's been like that for quite a while now

How do you think the budget is arrived at?
All the planning tools in the system are set up to resource to workload, the structure of a resource meeting is set up on the basis of resourcing to workload. Everything has a planning value and everything that needs to be done is accounted for. The only guesswork is the predicted traffic for the year. Every decent rep has been through these figures every year.

They don't just pluck a number out of thin air.
No part of the budget is based on people starting early or finishing early.

[SpacePhoenix]

Resourcing is done to budget, not workload, it's been like that for quite a while now

How do you think the budget is arrived at?
All the planning tools in the system are set up to resource to workload, the structure of a resource meeting is set up on the basis of resourcing to workload. Everything has a planning value and everything that needs to be done is accounted for. The only guesswork is the predicted traffic for the year. Every decent rep has been through these figures every year.

They don't just pluck a number out of thin air.
No part of the budget is based on people starting early or finishing early.

Resource to worload? Dream on. If that were the case we'd have a few more staff in at the right times

[tommyrep]

Resourcing is done to budget, not workload, it's been like that for quite a while now

How do you think the budget is arrived at?
All the planning tools in the system are set up to resource to workload, the structure of a resource meeting is set up on the basis of resourcing to workload. Everything has a planning value and everything that needs to be done is accounted for. The only guesswork is the predicted traffic for the year. Every decent rep has been through these figures every year.

They don't just pluck a number out of thin air.
No part of the budget is based on people starting early or finishing early.

Resource to worload? Dream on. If that were the case we'd have a few more staff in at the right times

You are right! Workload is a secondary issue when it comes to resourcing a DO.
Any unit cost is there to be cut to the bone and that is how the bonus system for RM management is structured.
Mr Guthrie speaks up a tad too strongly in defence of the merits of resourcing tools etc, in fact with such enthusiasm that you may even develop the impression that he may be heavily involved with it's application or somewhat instrumental in its application. Bit to defensive, while being over expressive in the main function of resourcing operations. It is more appropriatley simply a bonus culture driven tool, the base from where management benefits derive.
Smokescreen clearing, gradually?

[Woody Guthrie]

Mr Guthrie speaks up a tad too strongly in defence of the merits of resourcing tools etc, in fact with such enthusiasm that you may even develop the impression that he may be heavily involved with it's application or somewhat instrumental in its application.

Of course I am.
I'm a rep who doesn't allow budget driven resourcing that can't be justified through workload.
Workload is only a secondary issue in a DO if the rep is a waste of space.
If you want to call me a manager find the courage to do it properly.

[tommyrep]

Mr Guthrie speaks up a tad too strongly in defence of the merits of resourcing tools etc, in fact with such enthusiasm that you may even develop the impression that he may be heavily involved with it's application or somewhat instrumental in its application.

Of course I am.
I'm a rep who doesn't allow budget driven resourcing that can't be justified through workload.
Workload is only a secondary issue in a DO if the rep is a waste of space.
If you want to call me a manager find the courage to do it properly.

I would have but it contravenes the rules to be insulting towards fellow posters.
You cannot assume or call any poster a plant or a spy, ever!
But hey, if the shoe fits wear it!
You do not come across as a Union Rep I must say, a tad too condescending towards many and the first Union man to show any support to those choosing to start early in complete contrast to the Unions wish for members to do the job properly.

[Celgar]

DOMs and union reps do have resourcing meetings or at least they do in our DO. I would say RM do resource to workload but most of the data they have available is not accurate or gives a incorrect picture of how the job is done. As our union rep continues to tell us if us Postie's give RM free work such as coming in before duty time RM won't complain or even take any visible notice. They will just suck it up and count it potentially as Postie's going home early and an opportunity to add more work. Some posties will blame Postie's who come early for RM cuts but the larger changes come from their national flawed data. I think or hope that once the AHDC is implemented and the new route data is designed we may end up in a better place.

[tommyrep]

DOMs and union reps do have resourcing meetings or at least they do in our DO. I would say RM do resource to workload but most of the data they have available is not accurate or gives a incorrect picture of how the job is done. As our union rep continues to tell us if us Postie's give RM free work such as coming in before duty time RM won't complain or even take any visible notice. They will just suck it up and count it potentially as Postie's going home early and an opportunity to add more work. Some posties will blame Postie's who come early for RM cuts but the larger changes come from their national flawed data. I think or hope that once the AHDC is implemented and the new route data is designed we may end up in a better place.

Figures used at a resource meeting are estimates from " expected " mail volumes for the next week. By whom?
All pie in the sky and cannot be accurate when based on guess work. Despite woodys flawed observations.
It is ALWAYS biased towards RM, as there is no way of confirming these figures and who provides them?, certainly not by the CWU. Come the day it's all the same regardless, added lapsing work will apply on any day where duty time is regarded as available to do it! whether down to traffic volumes or not. It's all to do with the available duty time, so if mail is up quickly - due in part to early starters - there is more scope for say double lapsing. If people are up and leaving 30 mins before the official leave time obviously they can do more street work to utilise their full contracted hours. Any sudden sickness levels? simply equates to more lapsing work regardless of any resourcing guesstimates, we all know the script.
New route data may be of a benefit, the question to be asked is for who's benefit? My money firmly on RMs, with ample scope for the bullying culture to continue, more hours lost and FT work a distant memory.

[postslippete]

DOMs and union reps do have resourcing meetings or at least they do in our DO. I would say RM do resource to workload but most of the data they have available is not accurate or gives a incorrect picture of how the job is done. As our union rep continues to tell us if us Postie's give RM free work such as coming in before duty time RM won't complain or even take any visible notice. They will just suck it up and count it potentially as Postie's going home early and an opportunity to add more work. Some posties will blame Postie's who come early for RM cuts but the larger changes come from their national flawed data. I think or hope that once the AHDC is implemented and the new route data is designed we may end up in a better place.

Figures used at a resource meeting are estimates from " expected " mail volumes for the next week. By whom?
All pie in the sky and cannot be accurate when based on guess work. Despite woodys flawed observations.
It is ALWAYS biased towards RM, as there is no way of confirming these figures and who provides them?, certainly not by the CWU. Come the day it's all the same regardless, added lapsing work will apply on any day where duty time is regarded as available to do it! whether down to traffic volumes or not. It's all to do with the available duty time, so if mail is up quickly - due in part to early starters - there is more scope for say double lapsing. If people are up and leaving 30 mins before the official leave time obviously they can do more street work to utilise their full contracted hours. Any sudden sickness levels? simply equates to more lapsing work regardless of any resourcing guesstimates, we all know the script.
New route data may be of a benefit, the question to be asked is for who's benefit? My money firmly on RMs, with ample scope for the bullying culture to continue, more hours lost and FT work a distant memory.

You know this argument does have a certain theme and logic to it. Staff come in early unpaid but then finish early and all the office sees is an opportunity for hours that could be utilised with some additional lapsing. Then those guys decide to come in even earlier to try and make up the time that they spend lapsing whilst others still refuse point blank to work any additional work for "nowt". When our office tried sending those early runners back out again with even more extra work they either refused or just sat in their vans till finish time and came back to frames full of mail and Yorks full of packets. Royal Mail can't always have its double lapsing and expect everyone to take it.

[world class male]

i welcome the pda data if they will use it fairly,
i.e they know some win everyday so either add to duty or give more indoor work and plan to get them out later, thus giving those with generally bigger duties the chance to get out earlier, tough if they play the "i came in early" card
the "runner" mentality is still rife in my d/o and even if given indoor work to perform the line managers turn a blind eye, they don't realise that 4 less people who are supposed to sort something not theirs indoors, even households sets the rest of us back and get out later than planned then the arguments start, usually with p't who shouldn't be left in that position.

[postslippete]

I totally agree with this,the problem we got in our depot is that the gaffer has their favourites and they aren't going to give them extra indoor work or make real additions to their duty whilst they are still doing vital early IPS sorting on overtime or taking loops from bigger duties like mine on overtime - otherwise they are left with even more problems that they had from where they started. Its just a fact of life that the way most managers work in delivery offices always look for the easy way out. The ones that get picked on in Royal Mail are the ones that are new or don't help the business out by doing feckin overtime!!