Just bouncing back to this, isn’t the RM job slightly different to “normal” jobs in that when you’re done, you’re done, it’s job and finish. At least til the pda actuals are nationally implemented correctly??TrueBlueTerrier wrote:Chalky13 wrote:So surely if you are offered 1hr to do some extra work and it takes you 15mins that’s not fraud, that’s the management issue. I’m pretty sure it’s not fraud either, if you do your duty and the said overtime and finish at 2pm, even if paid til 3:30.
It’s been offered and you’ve done it properly, just quicker than expected. It’s efficiency of postman over inefficient management.
However, what I would say is fraud is this. You have your duty, you complete it and you complete it early. Then sit out or go home. Then come back at 3 and claim overtime of 30mins every day.
That’s fraud, because you’re claiming for time you haven’t worked, that hasn’t been offered by a manager. That’s the difference. You’re doing it off your own back.
I would agree with you if it was just Royal Mail that decided what was fraud and what isn't, but they don't.
If IB pushed the issue, or RM HQ invoked the work all your paid hours agreement or even a regional manager just wanted to look at the ot hours paid and worked then I think a lot of people would be under the microscope.
Why though. Fairly simple, we are not paid a piece rate like DPD, Amazon etc, where when you have finished you go home. We work a set number of contract hours and we should work those house. Now if you do overtime, in RM posties generally come to an "unofficial" agreement with the manager, which is all fine and dandy. However, if you don't work the hours (but do the work) and all you have is an unofficial arrangement with the manager are you safe.
In my opinion no. The fact that you came to an arrangement with your manager, which is against the national agreements, won't protect you from a legal or disciplinary charge of fraud, all it will do is put 2 of you in the frame, you and your manager.
However, if you know the risks, and yes they are very small, then fill your boots, just don't do it blindly and think you are safe as houses. To think you are would be naive, after all, who doesn't think the average manager in Royal Mail won't throw you under the bus if it helps them.
I worked in the motor trade for nearly 30 years, in garages and insurance companies and if you left early, you don’t get paid unless you make up the time. Even in the ‘80s when the world was a different place, you still worked til 5 every day even if there wasn’t anything to do.
However, back then, you got a similar way of pay in discussion now. It’s rarely used now, but it was a bonus scheme. You got paid a certain amount of hours per job. If you did it in less time, you still got the hours on the job, not what you worked.
So many guys were earning 100+ hours a week and working 39. In principle it’s ghosting, but was paid and never argued.
Guys now who aren’t on bonus, don’t work as fast as they did, work 39 hours and get paid 39hours. They might complete 50 hours work in repair times, or 25, but they get paid 39 regardless