Can we report Bullying Doms to the police?

Sir Henry · Post by **Sir Henry** » 09 Dec 2018, 20:12

Sounds like Threatening Behaviour. Cut to the chase, ask a solicitor. Or try Keith Humphries on 1st Class Chat ( Royal Mail ) on Facebook. You'll need to get someone who is already a page member to add you.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 09 Dec 2018, 21:39

Throwing an empty mech box towards another person could be argued to be assault.

No actual contact need be made. Only the apprehension of immediate personal violence with the required mens rea, that being intention to cause such. Someone saying he was shouting at the woman and looking squarely at her at the time it was thrown may well satisfy this test.

Police or more accurately the CPS tend not to take the literal approach when applying these offences against the person to real situations, however the legislation is quite clear.

Be polite to the police, explain how you have construed the legislation and I doubt you will just be fobbed off, once they know that you know the game.

lofarl · Post by **lofarl** » 09 Dec 2018, 22:19

Sir Henry wrote:Is there a reason that the area or divisional rep isn't all over this? Is it not within the combined abilities of the entire office to oust the useless prick of a rep or at least go over their head and inform area of their distaste for getting involved on a regular basis?

If it is a case of not wanting to stick ones head above the parapet by all means pm me the names, dates, and office and I will email those that should be jumping down the throat of this ASSistant Dom

I'll keep that in mind. As Piranha mentioned in his post getting rid of managers like that is not easy. It would take a combined effort. His behavior worsens when the DOM is off work, like he was Friday or when there's a bulk posting or a busy period. I've been in the Royal Mail nearly 12 years. I like this job, despite the many shortcomings. I've worked in far worse places. What frustrates me is pretty much everyone in the depot knows what he's like, but it's pretty much accepted. It's just how he is. Believe me I've seen him act far worse and I've seen him try his hardman routine with people that would knock seven shades of brown stuff out of him. A bully knows who he can pick on. As I've mentioned our DOM does not want any issues, imagine HR coming down on him. So a pat on the back and a "don't worry about it come see me" will usually suffice.

So in our depot, we've a DOM that is unwilling to put any issue further, Christ even his boss would struggle to walk and chew gum at the same time. A union rep that is close to retirement and is conveniently one of the first people out on delivery when the rest of us idiots are still boxing in mail. So really what can we do? I'd like to think that the Royal Mail would take action, but I've never seen it. I've no faith in the grievance procedure, if it was followed he'd be out on his arse a long long time ago. So ultimately I'm thinking to hell with it. Film him going on a rage, insulting people, threatening people, belittling people and just hand it over to the police and ask if they will act because the Royal Mail won't.

To the people that think oh haven't the police got more important things to do. I ask you this. Imagine you were out on delivery and someone came to you and started insulting you and started to throw stuff at you. Would you happily go back to this person's house the next day?

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 10 Dec 2018, 09:49

No comparison.
Events which happen in the workplace (unless something major like theft or GBH) wouldn't interest the police even if they weren't over-stretched, and would be left for HR to sort out.
What next, running to the police because the DOM shouted at you or the canteen ran out of bacon?

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 10 Dec 2018, 11:30

Bullying in the workplace is an example of an act that is unlawful if proven but not specifically illegal. The proper legal recourse is to exhaust the internal grievance procedure and then if unsatisfied take the case to an Industrial Tribunal.

Certain examples where threats of violence, hate crimes, social media harassment and continued harassment outside the workplace were involved would obviously warrant investigation by the police but that's because there are specific laws to deal with them.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 10 Dec 2018, 14:00

If someone tells me they are going to punch me on the IPS board, then this is within the scope of police interest.

Doesn’t matter if you think it should be or not.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 10 Dec 2018, 16:42

LaggyBand wrote:If someone tells me they are going to punch me on the IPS board, then this is within the scope of police interest.

Only if the threat is immediate, if they tell you they're going to punch you on the face next Tuesday or introduce a caveat like "if you talk to me again I'll punch you in the face" it isn't a police matter.
Strange...but true.

DGH · Post by **DGH** » 10 Dec 2018, 16:43

Woody Guthrie wrote:Bullying in the workplace is an example of an act that is unlawful if proven but not specifically illegal. The proper legal recourse is to exhaust the internal grievance procedure and then if unsatisfied take the case to an Industrial Tribunal.

Certain examples where threats of violence, hate crimes, social media harassment and continued harassment outside the workplace were involved would obviously warrant investigation by the police but that's because there are specific laws to deal with them.

Actually Harassment is an offence and can (and should) be reported to the police. If this incident is not a one off then it's almost certainly Harassment. However the throwing of the box coupled with the bverbal abuse might be enough to be considered Putting In Fear, which would definitely see the police intervening, if only to caution.

Whether you are in the workplace or not has sod all to do with it. Some laws apply specifically to the workplace but it is not the case that workplaces are outside normal law,

It is fair to say that reporting someone for Harassment or Putting in Fear is not to be done lightly and so a lot does depend on the specific context of the events described and whether they are part of a wider pattern. It's also fair to say that reporting internally is sensible so long as you trust the manager informed to actually take meaningful action.

Post by **Brandy** » 10 Dec 2018, 17:00

Just remember what goes around comes around,and these awful bullies should remember that

Interested-seeker · Post by **Interested-seeker** » 10 Dec 2018, 18:11

Royal mail is a company that is listed in the top 50 employers for women...

...I am completely shocked and appalled that a male manager working for such a company gets away with physically and verbally abusing female staff. Treating any staff like that is despicable, but for a woman to have to face abuse from a man who is likely to be taller and much stronger is a different level.

What are you doing Royal Mail? Sort it out and sack him!

cliffeyhez · Post by **cliffeyhez** » 10 Dec 2018, 20:10

This is Threatening Behaviour. Public Order Act 1986 part 1 section 4. Report it

Post by **Brandy** » 10 Dec 2018, 20:16

How much lower are RM going to sink and where are the union and what are they doing? I saw and heard a lot of verbal bullying,and I was sometimes on the receiving end by RM management,but this is just terrible.

DGH · Post by **DGH** » 10 Dec 2018, 20:22

cliffeyhez wrote:This is Threatening Behaviour. Public Order Act 1986 part 1 section 4. Report it

I'm not at all sure it is threatening behaviour, because although there has clearly been use of threatening, abusive or insulting words and behaviour, it's not at all clear that there would follow the (necessary) belief that immediate unlawful violence would follow. It may be the case that a reasonable onlooker or the subject of the abuse would have inferred that, but I rather suspect that even the throwing of the box (which doesn't seem to have been at the subject of the abuse) wouldn't be enough.

However, as I said above, I'd be a lot more confident about it amounting to Harassment if it's not just a one-off.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 10 Dec 2018, 20:42

Woody Guthrie wrote:
LaggyBand wrote:If someone tells me they are going to punch me on the IPS board, then this is within the scope of police interest.

Only if the threat is immediate, if they tell you they're going to punch you on the face next Tuesday or introduce a caveat like "if you talk to me again I'll punch you in the face" it isn't a police matter.
Strange...but true.

Yep, my stance is it made me feel like it’d be immediate.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 10 Dec 2018, 20:44

Oh. And just to add.

So much for PDA Actuals taking the EMOTION out of workload talks ...!