TrueBlueTerrier wrote:Its sad when a thread starts to descend into name-calling and backbiting. You'd think we were enemies not colleagues
I agree. I am relatively new to the Royal Mail at 7 months in and so I do not know all the in's and out's of policies and procedures that Royal Mail have in place.
I have to admit I am just as confused now as I was with my initial quite seemingly (or so I thought question) Loads on here saying I can't be on both my holiday and also be working yet 2 very senior and experianced managers (20 years plus each) and my CWU rep saying I can but I am not allowed more than 72.2 hours (or something close).
Ultimately and I will again state this. I am doing this out of free will. I am 38 and know my mind and body currently and I am as of yet not crawling on my knees to my next delivery point and hope that if i was then I would be preferring my weeks holiday. I'm not stupid, from monday (when my holiday started) I am working 4 days on full time hours. I have tomorrow off (because I am clearly not stupid) working thursday and friday. I then have 2 days off, in on monday and then 3 days off.
Surely my 2 senior managers and a very highly respected CWU rep can not be wrong.
I would just like to ask though, just out of curiosity. If i decided not to be a member of the CWU.. then should I have to adhere to their agreements and policies anyway?
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:Its sad when a thread starts to descend into name-calling and backbiting. You'd think we were enemies not colleagues
totally agree tbt, we are all in the s**t together and what started out an innocent thread as resulted in this!
i don't blame anyone for wanting more earnings but there's a right way and a wrong way, the open to abuse policies have let us down for many years so hardly surprising verbal abuse follows,
chicken or the egg situ, what let us down, members greed or spineless reps ? we are a divided union i'm afraid
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:Its sad when a thread starts to descend into name-calling and backbiting. You'd think we were enemies not colleagues
I agree. I am relatively new to the Royal Mail at 7 months in and so I do not know all the in's and out's of policies and procedures that Royal Mail have in place.
I have to admit I am just as confused now as I was with my initial quite seemingly (or so I thought question) Loads on here saying I can't be on both my holiday and also be working yet 2 very senior and experianced managers (20 years plus each) and my CWU rep saying I can but I am not allowed more than 72.2 hours (or something close).
Ultimately and I will again state this. I am doing this out of free will. I am 38 and know my mind and body currently and I am as of yet not crawling on my knees to my next delivery point and hope that if i was then I would be preferring my weeks holiday. I'm not stupid, from monday (when my holiday started) I am working 4 days on full time hours. I have tomorrow off (because I am clearly not stupid) working thursday and friday. I then have 2 days off, in on monday and then 3 days off.
Surely my 2 senior managers and a very highly respected CWU rep can not be wrong.
I would just like to ask though, just out of curiosity. If i decided not to be a member of the CWU.. then should I have to adhere to their agreements and policies anyway?
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:Its sad when a thread starts to descend into name-calling and backbiting. You'd think we were enemies not colleagues
Surely my 2 senior managers and a very highly respected CWU rep can not be wrong.
I would just like to ask though, just out of curiosity. If i decided not to be a member of the CWU.. then should I have to adhere to their agreements and policies anyway?
No you don't, there are many that choose not to join the Union and still reap all the benefits that being in a Union bring....things like better pay rises. A few non-Union members even went in to work the last time we were on strike a while back because they couldn't afford to lose any money
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:Its sad when a thread starts to descend into name-calling and backbiting. You'd think we were enemies not colleagues
I agree. I am relatively new to the Royal Mail at 7 months in and so I do not know all the in's and out's of policies and procedures that Royal Mail have in place.
I have to admit I am just as confused now as I was with my initial quite seemingly (or so I thought question) Loads on here saying I can't be on both my holiday and also be working yet 2 very senior and experianced managers (20 years plus each) and my CWU rep saying I can but I am not allowed more than 72.2 hours (or something close).
Ultimately and I will again state this. I am doing this out of free will. I am 38 and know my mind and body currently and I am as of yet not crawling on my knees to my next delivery point and hope that if i was then I would be preferring my weeks holiday. I'm not stupid, from monday (when my holiday started) I am working 4 days on full time hours. I have tomorrow off (because I am clearly not stupid) working thursday and friday. I then have 2 days off, in on monday and then 3 days off.
Surely my 2 senior managers and a very highly respected CWU rep can not be wrong.
I would just like to ask though, just out of curiosity. If i decided not to be a member of the CWU.. then should I have to adhere to their agreements and policies anyway?
You dont have to follow any agreement but if what you choose to ignore is against royal mail policy you cant then complain if you get taken down the conduct code. Im assuming youd then join the union and ask for help dealing with some over zealous manager. Like it or not the cwu represent the workforce in negotiations with royal mail and make agreements for us all even if you arent a member just like non members get pay rises etc negotiated by the union
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:Its sad when a thread starts to descend into name-calling and backbiting. You'd think we were enemies not colleagues
I agree. I am relatively new to the Royal Mail at 7 months in and so I do not know all the in's and out's of policies and procedures that Royal Mail have in place.
I have to admit I am just as confused now as I was with my initial quite seemingly (or so I thought question) Loads on here saying I can't be on both my holiday and also be working yet 2 very senior and experianced managers (20 years plus each) and my CWU rep saying I can but I am not allowed more than 72.2 hours (or something close).
Ultimately and I will again state this. I am doing this out of free will. I am 38 and know my mind and body currently and I am as of yet not crawling on my knees to my next delivery point and hope that if i was then I would be preferring my weeks holiday. I'm not stupid, from monday (when my holiday started) I am working 4 days on full time hours. I have tomorrow off (because I am clearly not stupid) working thursday and friday. I then have 2 days off, in on monday and then 3 days off.
Surely my 2 senior managers and a very highly respected CWU rep can not be wrong.
I would just like to ask though, just out of curiosity. If i decided not to be a member of the CWU.. then should I have to adhere to their agreements and policies anyway?
you cannot be chastised for doing what you have done with you being pretty new to the job especially when quite senior posties do the same and following suit, my gripe is not with people wanting extra earnings it's with you're senior managers (2?) and rep saying its perfectly ok to work annual leave, it definitely is not and your rep needs telling this as they are failing in their duty as a CWU rep and needs outing asap if he did agree to this.
markfisher3 wrote:
Surely my 2 senior managers and a very highly respected CWU rep can not be wrong.
Yes they can.
The Way Forward Agreement (you can find it in Downloads.)
Taking Leave
Employees may not attend the office whilst on annual or other leave.This means employees may not attend the office to work overtime or Scheduled Attendance.
It couldn't be clearer.
The rep should be removed from office.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
I would suggest that you contact your branch and ask them their opinion and tell them that your highly respected local rep has advised you that you can work while your on annual leave but loads of people on the interwebs have told you other wise and even given you the national agreement where it says you can't twice now.
See how that goes
If you are not a member you are still bound by the national collective agreements that the CWU agree same as when nationally agreed pay rises handed out.
markfisher3 wrote:
Surely my 2 senior managers and a very highly respected CWU rep can not be wrong.
Yes they can.
The Way Forward Agreement (you can find it in Downloads.)
Taking Leave
Employees may not attend the office whilst on annual or other leave.This means employees may not attend the office to work overtime or Scheduled Attendance.
It couldn't be clearer.
The rep should be removed from office.
If that’s the actual wording then it would suggest it’s optional and you can not be forced to work it but can if you want. Otherwise they would have used the words “must not” instead of “may not”
markfisher3 wrote:
Surely my 2 senior managers and a very highly respected CWU rep can not be wrong.
Yes they can.
The Way Forward Agreement (you can find it in Downloads.)
Taking Leave
Employees may not attend the office whilst on annual or other leave.This means employees may not attend the office to work overtime or Scheduled Attendance.
It couldn't be clearer.
The rep should be removed from office.
If that’s the actual wording then it would suggest it’s optional and you can not be forced to work it but can if you want. Otherwise they would have used the words “must not” instead of “may not”
Semantics....
"Can I borrow your lawnmower?" "You may not borrow my lawnmower" clearly there is no optional part of that statement.
"Can I work my annual leave on overtime?" "You may not work your annual leave on overtime" clearly there is no optional part of that statement either.
A simple point of principle disagreement would sort this
this is getting quite tedious now
can someone 100% say working annual leave is absolutely forbidden as i'm lead to believe (by my rep) or is ok under certain circumstances it's allowed?
my take on it is that if nobody is refused leave on that given week then let whoever wants to work it work, nobody loses out, but if someone wanted an holiday the same week but refused even if requested ages ago then no, not ok to work it or if like my office , loads have leave carried over from years ago but constantly rolled over due to no availability, this is where a good rep steps in
the op seems to have a rep in bed with the dom
number one wrote:
If that’s the actual wording then it would suggest it’s optional and you can not be forced to work it but can if you want. Otherwise they would have used the words “must not” instead of “may not”
:arrrghhh
This semantic argument is absurd, it couldnt be any clearer, may not = must not. Its not an optional form of "not".
number one wrote:
If that’s the actual wording then it would suggest it’s optional and you can not be forced to work it but can if you want. Otherwise they would have used the words “must not” instead of “may not”
This semantic argument is absurd, it couldnt be any clearer, may not = must not. Its not an optional form of "not".
number one wrote:
If that’s the actual wording then it would suggest it’s optional and you can not be forced to work it but can if you want. Otherwise they would have used the words “must not” instead of “may not”
This semantic argument is absurd, it couldnt be any clearer, may not = must not. Its not an optional form of "not".
The wording has to be correct in agreements.
In a legally binding agreement, I'd agree with you, however not true for employment ones otherwise they wouldn't use such terminology as "in the spirit of our agreements"
https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 36&t=19520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "All parties will work together in a positive way to resolve outstanding issues within the spirit of the national agreement "
https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 62&t=82248" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "the External Mediator will take account of any regulatory and legal requirements, the terms and spirit of the Agenda for Growth, Stability and Long Term Success Agreement, other relevant national agreements, the needs of customers, the universal service obligation, and the need for appropriate efficiency supported by a climate of sustainable trust and collaborative decision making. "
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number one wrote:
Wording has to be correct in agreements.
In order to provide clarification perhaps you would be so kind as to give me the name of your DOM and your office and I will ask justsayit to contact him.
Or perhaps they will correct me and state that working your annual leave is an option.
Either way we will have a definitive answer.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
