Working My Holiday

[world class male]

we've had disputes in my office about this. Specifically, when somebody was unable to pick a particular holiday week in the middle of Summer (due to the leave allocation being full when it was their turn to choose) only to find that one of the people who had been allocated that particular week ended up working the whole week anyway.

I’ve had it before. Declined for a week....come in and someone is working their holiday. I absolutely lost it.

you can make calls to get them removed from the office if you choose to

Sure, not certain, that PSP will not accept any ot being entered onto,system if you are down as annual leave. If this IS the case your DOM will promise you the earth knowing full well that they won’t be able to pay your hours until,the week after so you’ll wait yet another week for your payment....... they aren’t doing you any favours just getting what they need to cover themselves

people do it almost every week in our d/o, with the blessing of the rep i may add who helps smooth things over if anyone does complain

[number one]

Sure, not certain, that PSP will not accept any ot being entered onto,system if you are down as annual leave. If this IS the case your DOM will promise you the earth knowing full well that they won’t be able to pay your hours until,the week after so you’ll wait yet another week for your payment....... they aren’t doing you any favours just getting what they need to cover themselves

Not true

[number one]

sad really happened in our office we have a few sad people who come in on holiday . think its wrong because some of the posties who needed that week off couldn't get it and the sad people with no life our coming in working . should just do what I do when they come in call them sad and get a life and soon gets to them then the hissing comes into it then B AND H come into mind

So you’re admitting you’re a bully? Thats nice. If you think people working for double pay is sad then your opinion should be kept to yourself.

no al just say it to there face thanks been in the job to long to care now no one does the job properly and no one is arsed I do the job properly take me break start at the correct time cut off at the correct time if I cant complete etc and don't come in on double pay ??? never heard that one before why is it £22 pound an hour now for coming in on leave ??

If you have been in the job as long as you say then you would already know, yes working your holiday is double pay as you would get paid your 38 hours when on holiday plus 38hours overtime yet only work 38 hours.

[jessthecat]

Plenty in my office on Hereford duties, work their weeks off. Can either choose to get paid double or book another week off.

[hero22]

sad really happened in our office we have a few sad people who come in on holiday . think its wrong because some of the posties who needed that week off couldn't get it and the sad people with no life our coming in working . should just do what I do when they come in call them sad and get a life and soon gets to them then the hissing comes into it then B AND H come into mind

Whats sad about wanting to earn extra for going on holiday ? I think its more sad you have to come on here and tell everybody what a hardman you are by calling people sad to their face.

[number one]

sad really happened in our office we have a few sad people who come in on holiday . think its wrong because some of the posties who needed that week off couldn't get it and the sad people with no life our coming in working . should just do what I do when they come in call them sad and get a life and soon gets to them then the hissing comes into it then B AND H come into mind

Whats sad about wanting to earn extra for going on holiday ? I think its more sad you have to come on here and tell everybody what a hardman you are by calling people sad to their face.

Nothing hard about being a bully

[Momo90210]

Technically as per the national agreement the simple answer is no you cannot be paid to work annual leave. However as we all know within royal mail what should happen and what actually happens are two very different things. I understand the concept of people wanting to earn extra money however if you are willing to break a national agreement to do so then I hope you withdraw from the CWU immediately as you can't have your cake and eat it I'm afraid

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Legal Opinion https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/legal ... n-holiday/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Under the Working Time Regulations 1998, workers are entitled to 28 days’ paid holiday per leave year including bank holidays (or the equivalent pro rated amount for part-time workers), although they can receive additional holiday under their employment contracts. The legal entitlement to holiday is intended to provide people with a period of rest from work. As Lord Justice Mummery stated in the recent case of NHS Leeds v Larner, the purpose of paid annual leave “is to enable a worker to enjoy rest, relaxation and leisure: it is for the protection of health and safety” and this is why pay in lieu of statutory holiday is prohibited except where a worker’s employment is terminated.

Legal risks to the employer

It is not possible for employees to contract out of their statutory holiday entitlement. Therefore, there is a risk, although as yet untested, that if workers are required or pressurised to work while on holiday they could bring a claim that their employer refused to permit them to take their statutory holiday entitlement in breach of the Working Time Regulations. However, if workers choose to work while on holiday, although they are not required to do so by their employer, then they will not be able to bring such a claim.

There is also a risk that employees who work on holiday may develop stress. Further, if a culture of employees working while on holiday develops it is likely to set a dangerous precedent that employees are “on call” at all times and thereby significantly increasing the likelihood of the workforce being affected by work-related stress.

Under health and safety legislation there is a general duty on employers to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the welfare of all their employees at work. Employers also have a duty to undertake risk assessments and manage activities to reduce the incidence of stress at work. Breach of health and safety legislation could result in criminal sanctions, although this is unlikely in the context of employees working while on holiday.

However, employers are also under a common law duty to take reasonable care for the health and safety of employees in the workplace. Therefore, employees suffering from work-related stress could bring personal injury claims against their employer. In addition, anxiety, stress and depression having a substantial and long-term adverse effect on an employee’s day-to-day activities may amount to a disability under the Equality Act 2010. In such circumstances, employers are exposed to possible claims for failure to make reasonable adjustments.

So volunteering to work while you're on holiday is not illegal as it hasn't yet been tested. But I wonder how many Royal Mail managers know the risks they are taking as from a quick read through the above the risk and onus appear to be mainly on them.

Oh. Its a collective agreement with Royal Mail so there is no opt-out clause unless you advocate picking and choosing which agreements you adhere to. If you do I am sure there is a position in management that may be ideal for you

[number one]

Legal Opinion https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/legal ... n-holiday/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Under the Working Time Regulations 1998, workers are entitled to 28 days’ paid holiday per leave year including bank holidays (or the equivalent pro rated amount for part-time workers), although they can receive additional holiday under their employment contracts. The legal entitlement to holiday is intended to provide people with a period of rest from work. As Lord Justice Mummery stated in the recent case of NHS Leeds v Larner, the purpose of paid annual leave “is to enable a worker to enjoy rest, relaxation and leisure: it is for the protection of health and safety” and this is why pay in lieu of statutory holiday is prohibited except where a worker’s employment is terminated.

Legal risks to the employer

It is not possible for employees to contract out of their statutory holiday entitlement. Therefore, there is a risk, although as yet untested, that if workers are required or pressurised to work while on holiday they could bring a claim that their employer refused to permit them to take their statutory holiday entitlement in breach of the Working Time Regulations. However, if workers choose to work while on holiday, although they are not required to do so by their employer, then they will not be able to bring such a claim.

There is also a risk that employees who work on holiday may develop stress. Further, if a culture of employees working while on holiday develops it is likely to set a dangerous precedent that employees are “on call” at all times and thereby significantly increasing the likelihood of the workforce being affected by work-related stress.

Under health and safety legislation there is a general duty on employers to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the welfare of all their employees at work. Employers also have a duty to undertake risk assessments and manage activities to reduce the incidence of stress at work. Breach of health and safety legislation could result in criminal sanctions, although this is unlikely in the context of employees working while on holiday.

However, employers are also under a common law duty to take reasonable care for the health and safety of employees in the workplace. Therefore, employees suffering from work-related stress could bring personal injury claims against their employer. In addition, anxiety, stress and depression having a substantial and long-term adverse effect on an employee’s day-to-day activities may amount to a disability under the Equality Act 2010. In such circumstances, employers are exposed to possible claims for failure to make reasonable adjustments.

So volunteering to work while you're on holiday is not illegal as it hasn't yet been tested. But I wonder how many Royal Mail managers know the risks they are taking as from a quick read through the above the risk and onus appear to be mainly on them.

Oh. Its a collective agreement with Royal Mail so there is no opt-out clause unless you advocate picking and choosing which agreements you adhere to. If you do I am sure there is a position in management that may be ideal for you

This is just about statutory holiday entitlement what about days above the minimum entitlement?

[world class male]

i just find posties working their annual leave plain selfish, especially as it's now the norm for plenty of others who actually need a week off if only to chill at home and not allowed to book it due to no slots available,
i wonder how many managers who agree to this practice go and ask for someone with a load of lieu days left if they fancy next week off? none!
i see this "working leave" every other week

[markfisher3]

hi everyone an thank you all for your replies.

Firstly I would just like to clarify that I was given this holiday. It wasn't requested because no one else had requested it and as such there was space available. I have not taken a weeks holiday off someone who may of wanted it.

I stated in my previous post that I was actually doing everyone a favour as my working partner and also our main cover were off on holiday at the same time and so me working has actually helped the office a lot.

I was worried about everyones comments about how it goes against union policies etc etc and as such I contacted my CWU rep to clarify the position as I did not want to get my manager into trouble or myself. And they confirmed that so long as I did not go over the 70 hour working week agreement then there was no reason for me to not work during my holiday and be paid my standard 30 hours holiday pay plus any overtime. This was also clarified by my CWU rep to my manager.

Some of your have said its selfish, but in actual fact its not. Being able to work while on holiday that I have been given makes sue that I get my family to a good point especially with christmas just around the corner.

Yes I have lost a weeks holiday entitlement but this is my choice and i have not been pressured in to it. Also my CWU rep read some of the comments and stated that if that was the case with being hissed at etc etc then the Union would have asked for disciplinary action be taken against those individuals. Perhaps this "old boy" in the royal mail is outdated and perhaps that attitude is what is causing it to be dragged down.

To another point that was raised about doing things by the book... 1) I always turn up early and on my frame in good time to assist my partner ensuring we are out on time and i do this freely and do not get paid for it. 2) In all the time I have worked for Royal Mail I have only ever had about a 5 minute break simply because we do not have time for one however and 3) I wear what I am given to do my job correctly.

I love my job and serving my customers however if I am given the opportunity to make twice my weekly wage for helping my colleagues and my office then i'll do it to help my family.

Thnaks to everyone who posted positive comments and the private messages of support they were greatly appreciated.

[citypostie]

hi everyone an thank you all for your replies.

Firstly I would just like to clarify that I was given this holiday. It wasn't requested because no one else had requested it and as such there was space available. I have not taken a weeks holiday off someone who may of wanted it.

I stated in my previous post that I was actually doing everyone a favour as my working partner and also our main cover were off on holiday at the same time and so me working has actually helped the office a lot.

I was worried about everyones comments about how it goes against union policies etc etc and as such I contacted my CWU rep to clarify the position as I did not want to get my manager into trouble or myself. And they confirmed that so long as I did not go over the 70 hour working week agreement then there was no reason for me to not work during my holiday and be paid my standard 30 hours holiday pay plus any overtime. This was also clarified by my CWU rep to my manager.

Some of your have said its selfish, but in actual fact its not. Being able to work while on holiday that I have been given makes sue that I get my family to a good point especially with christmas just around the corner.

Yes I have lost a weeks holiday entitlement but this is my choice and i have not been pressured in to it. Also my CWU rep read some of the comments and stated that if that was the case with being hissed at etc etc then the Union would have asked for disciplinary action be taken against those individuals. Perhaps this "old boy" in the royal mail is outdated and perhaps that attitude is what is causing it to be dragged down.

To another point that was raised about doing things by the book... 1) I always turn up early and on my frame in good time to assist my partner ensuring we are out on time and i do this freely and do not get paid for it. 2) In all the time I have worked for Royal Mail I have only ever had about a 5 minute break simply because we do not have time for one however and 3) I wear what I am given to do my job correctly.

I love my job and serving my customers however if I am given the opportunity to make twice my weekly wage for helping my colleagues and my office then i'll do it to help my family.

Thnaks to everyone who posted positive comments and the private messages of support they were greatly appreciated.

At the end of the day you do what's right for you! People can hark on about the cwu and agreements but royal mail is full of people who look out for number one and plenty of them will go on about sticking together and agreements but when push comes to shove will look out for themselves and stab colleagues in the back to make things better for themselves. I've been on the receiving end a few times especially when i first started due to seniority be used to pick leave. The senior blokes picked weeks they didn't want during school holidays so they could then offer them to people lower down in exchange for their weeks plus cash going to them as well! What a nice bunch of people we work with eh?

[ballsup]

hi everyone an thank you all for your replies.

Firstly I would just like to clarify that I was given this holiday. It wasn't requested because no one else had requested it and as such there was space available. I have not taken a weeks holiday off someone who may of wanted it.

Ok I get your reasoning

I stated in my previous post that I was actually doing everyone a favour as my working partner and also our main cover were off on holiday at the same time and so me working has actually helped the office a lot.

It helped you out more and was driven by you wanting to get extra money, if you really wanted to help out the office why not do it for free??

I was worried about everyones comments about how it goes against union policies etc etc and as such I contacted my CWU rep to clarify the position as I did not want to get my manager into trouble or myself. And they confirmed that so long as I did not go over the 70 hour working week agreement then there was no reason for me to not work during my holiday and be paid my standard 30 hours holiday pay plus any overtime. This was also clarified by my CWU rep to my manager.

I gave you the agreement that prevented you attending during leave, lets hope your rep doesn't just ignore other agreements that dont suit his personal view

Some of your have said its selfish, but in actual fact its not. Being able to work while on holiday that I have been given makes sue that I get my family to a good point especially with christmas just around the corner.

Again understand you want to do whats best for your family

Yes I have lost a weeks holiday entitlement but this is my choice and i have not been pressured in to it. Also my CWU rep read some of the comments and stated that if that was the case with being hissed at etc etc then the Union would have asked for disciplinary action be taken against those individuals. Perhaps this "old boy" in the royal mail is outdated and perhaps that attitude is what is causing it to be dragged down.

Bullying like this should not take place

To another point that was raised about doing things by the book... 1) I always turn up early and on my frame in good time to assist my partner ensuring we are out on time and i do this freely and do not get paid for it. 2) In all the time I have worked for Royal Mail I have only ever had about a 5 minute break simply because we do not have time for one however and 3) I wear what I am given to do my job correctly.

Ok you are trolling us now right???

I love my job and serving my customers however if I am given the opportunity to make twice my weekly wage for helping my colleagues and my office then i'll do it to help my family.

Thnaks to everyone who posted positive comments and the private messages of support they were greatly appreciated.

[postslippete]

The only reason to doing the overtime is to suit himself, no one else!! There is another thing about overtime allocation as well and that is that it should be allocated fairly. I've seen one or two of these guys in Royal Mail who start working all these hours, working till 8pm every night, putting all this overtime down, and the next minute, the company have got someone else recruited. Royal Mail want everyone working as a team not as individuals and this sort of thing has in the past has got people's backs up, especially when they may also want the money for their families at Xmas.

[markfisher3]

The only reason to doing the overtime is to suit himself, no one else!! There is another thing about overtime allocation as well and that is that it should be allocated fairly. I've seen one or two of these guys in Royal Mail who start working all these hours, working till 8pm every night, putting all this overtime down, and the next minute, the company have got someone else recruited. Royal Mail want everyone working as a team not as individuals and this sort of thing has in the past has got people's backs up, especially when they may also want the money for their families at Xmas.

Hiya. Ordinarily the only overtime i generally work is when were late back off duty or rarely on prep. It was only when my manager stated that I could earn double wage with my other colleagues being off that I jumped at it. We have a few in our office that do a lot of overtime but thats mainly from lapsed duties and those than can't be arsed!