Seniority, is it ageist?

Post by **roger** » 26 Oct 2018, 21:01

cpsteve wrote:
roger wrote:
Dingo99 wrote:In my office we keep having talk of a possible resign. Now this worries me as I am a duty holder on a okay duty but the fact is I am knowledgable about who is who, where I can get rid of packets etc. Anyway I have been with RM since DEC 2009, but my seniority only runs from I think late 2013 since I was shafted constantly being on rolling contracts with Angard. Anyway I don't see why I should get put on a shi* duty just cause most of my colleagues have been in the job longer. I only became a duty holder by the skin of my teeth as my part time colleague had slightly less seniority than me. Why not go by merit? I have been doing this duty on and off and now continuously for years and can reel off everyone's name practically on my duty, I wouldn't like to get put on the High ST for e.g just because my near retirement colleague has been in the job longer! It sucks and this same colleague thinks that even annual leave should be allocated due to seniority, what a crock!
Don't forget if your duty hasn't changed it doesn't have to go in the re-sign if you don'want it to.
If only that was the case, in a full resign anyone senior to you can take your duty. I have been moved off of duties many times the last time was because the most senior postie left nothing had changed on any duty.

You and your rep need to read "Resourcing jobs as a result of major change"you can google it.It explains that if your duty hasn't changed it doesn't need to go into a re-sign if you don't want it to.Most reps have never heard of it.

S6 Stroller · Post by **S6 Stroller** » 27 Oct 2018, 11:15

cpsteve wrote:It matters not how bad or how good you do the job just how long you have worked for the R/M. Makes no sense but in our job most things dont.

This. All day.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 27 Oct 2018, 14:09

To put this to bed..

It isn't directly age discrimination because it's based on length of service. Whether you could win a case based on indirect age discrimination is up for debate but I doubt it.

Is it completely fair?, not really but nothing is completely fair. There are always winners and losers in life.

Does it make sense to use length of service? Yes because it's the only absolutely definitive quantifiable measure. Anything else like how good a postie you are is completely subjective and it's the only thing guaranteed to improve the longer you stay in the business.

Is length of service outdated? No I think you'll find it's used in almost every industry from ship building to tech companies. Last in is always the holiday cover/reserve driver/General dogsbody and tea boy. What makes it different in our case is how we allow managers the scope to treat new starts like s**t for years, not having your own duty should not mean that you don't know where you'll be from one day to the next or have to guess what your day off might be this week.

If there's one failing in seniority it's that it tends to make those that are on the right side of it blind and deaf but that responsibility is ours not seniority.

Is this a pointless argument? Yes.

maisymoo04 · Post by **maisymoo04** » 27 Oct 2018, 20:06

woody has 36 years just saying
maisymoo has 35 years right ?
a job comes up not saying a easy job but a job we would like to do but only one vacancy right . we our both good postman take our breaks etc all that crap.
maisymoo gets the job before woody.
how would you feel woody if I got it not aiming it at you personally to everyone moaning about seniority its how royal mail work. its prob already been mentioned but its just tuff sh@@. just wondering if all the posties who have little service would feel like this say 30 years down line if there still in the job and a vacancy came up and a postie with less then them got it

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 28 Oct 2018, 12:25

maisymoo04 wrote: just wondering if all the posties who have little service would feel like this say 30 years down line if there still in the job and a vacancy came up and a postie with less then them got it :cuppa :cuppa :Boo hoo!

a lot of people want to moan about it in their early years with RM, i never did as i understood people had put their time in and i was respectful of that even though it meant that I might be working harder it was nice to know should i stay in the company i could also enjoy this "perk"

leolion855 · Post by **leolion855** » 28 Oct 2018, 12:35

Cant think of another company that uses this system though, most companies would interview all the applicants and pick the person who best fills that roll(walk in our case).
Or to put it another way, when we all applied to work for rm in the first place they didnt say person a applied before person b so well employ person a.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 28 Oct 2018, 12:42

you act like there are beneficial skills that can be brought to the vast majority of the duties. Most regular deliveries require the same skill set as every other one. The specialist duties like dom support could be argued to be based on skill and in my office it certainly is the case and someone with no computer background is not getting that duty no matter how many years theyve been at RM. But regular walking duties ? Any prior expertise a postie may have on one particular duty is going to be matched by a replacement within 2 weeks 99% of the time.

citypostie · Post by **citypostie** » 28 Oct 2018, 12:50

Postie45 wrote:you act like there are beneficial skills that can be brought to the vast majority of the duties. Most regular deliveries require the same skill set as every other one. The specialist duties like dom support could be argued to be based on skill and in my office it certainly is the case and someone with no computer background is not getting that duty no matter how many years theyve been at RM. But regular walking duties ? Any prior expertise a postie may have on one particular duty is going to be matched by a replacement within 2 weeks 99% of the time.

Jobs like dom support go on suitabilty first then if 2 people are equally suitable who apply it will go on seniority. Or thats how it worked in the past when i applied as dom support

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 28 Oct 2018, 12:52

yeah, thats what i was saying

Stunners · Post by **Stunners** » 28 Oct 2018, 16:25

Im 49 ive been in my office since I was 17 , im 3rd on the seniority list and im in front of a dozen or so guys older than me ... it isn't ageist then is it ?

Its the same old story and we have it in our office , seniority is a bad thing until it suits them ... then its a good thing

leolion855 · Post by **leolion855** » 29 Oct 2018, 14:46

im currently training someone more 'senior' on a walk ive been doing for 10 weeks( and have applied for) because they have also applied for it and the dom wants me to teach them!

twoloops · Post by **twoloops** » 29 Oct 2018, 14:53

Ring HR ask them if seniority exists in Royal Mail

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 29 Oct 2018, 16:50

mattycash wrote:Ring HR ask them if seniority exists in Royal Mail :left:

why bother doing that ? its obvious to everyone when a re-sign happens that it is

south London postie · Post by **south London postie** » 29 Oct 2018, 22:26

I've only been with RM for 2 years but one thing I'd say for seniority is, if there are easier walks in an office, someone who's done 20 years deserves it, and may even need it a little easier by that point. Not going to begrudge them that.

Raggedy Man · Post by **Raggedy Man** » 30 Oct 2018, 00:48

My take on seniority from someone that recently left RM after nearly a year with the company, but not the reason I left.

It will never change purely due to the culture of the workforce who have been there long term. I overheard comments like “they do treat new starters like sh*t these days but we had to go through it so others should. It wouldn’t be fair for us to have suffered and not them”.

It’s never going to change when the longer serving staff can’t say hang on something isn’t right here let’s make a culture change.

Senior serving staff getting easier walks. Fine but to me that means if their walk finish’s earlier (as most did in my office) give them more lapsing etc than piling it on less senior staff with the longer duties that are still delivering when the golden oldies have long gone home and are still been paid. Alternatively get them to prep more in the office before they leave to do their walk and finish early in works time. Why are people been paid to go home early yet staff on harder walks or even just part timers are arriving to not fully sorted frames and then claiming overtime at the end of the day. Want to save costs there’s a shed load of money across the business.

Weekend days off and Holidays. Stop lying to newbies and stop shafting those that are not walkholders by giving them weekends off they are due which the walk holders get. I argued it and won. It should’ve like that and again your newness is used against you.

Basic things to start treating those with less length of service more fairly. I’ve never worked at a company where the more junior are treated so differently. The comment above about the junior been teaboys kinda of sums it up in my my eyes. Delivering post ain’t rocket science. Gruelling and physical yes but no more.

Sorry rant over and apologies for going off tangent a tad. As I said before I left for other reasons but the whole seniority thing isn’t fair in many respects or used fairly by managers.