Seniority, is it ageist?

[clashcityrocker]

The people who complain about seniority are the ones with very little seniority , when they have done 20 years plus they will be the same ones defending it.

Well I've done 18 years and I still basically have the only option of being a leave reserve or picking one the worst duties in the office.
From what I can see seniority only really benefits those who've done around 30-40 years and their duties have barely been altered in all that time.

If you have the option of picking a (rubbish) duty, don't you have the option of a floater duty before leave reserve?

[daveyeff]

In my office we keep having talk of a possible resign. Now this worries me as I am a duty holder on a okay duty but the fact is I am knowledgable about who is who, where I can get rid of packets etc. Anyway I have been with RM since DEC 2009, but my seniority only runs from I think late 2013 since I was shafted constantly being on rolling contracts with Angard. Anyway I don't see why I should get put on a shi* duty just cause most of my colleagues have been in the job longer. ( I only became a duty holder by the skin of my teeth as my part time colleague had slightly less seniority than me.) Why not go by merit? I have been doing this duty on and off and now continuously for years and can reel off everyone's name practically on my duty, I wouldn't like to get put on the High ST for e.g just because my near retirement colleague has been in the job longer! It sucks and this same colleague thinks that even annual leave should be allocated due to seniority, what a crock!

Quote
(I only became a duty holder by the skin of my teeth as my part time colleague had slightly less seniority than me)

So what you are saying is seniority suited you then and was fair but it’s not now.
Words fail me in this instance.

I spotted this straight away, and thought the same as you. he scraped into a duty as HE had more seniority, but doesn't like the fact that he hasn't got more than others so he thinks its s**t

[DGH]

Seniority isn't 'ageist' because Royal Mail now has quite a few people who have joined later in life. Years ago that was rather less true.

Seniority is really only an issue because workloads are blatantly unfair in most offices - it's almost certain that scrapping seniority and replacing it with, for instance, a random draw, would bring about a rapid rebalancing of walks as very senior staff would have no incentive to bag easier walks and keep schtum (as does happen, as we all know).

I'm not saying that seniority should be scrapped, but it does encourage a certain fundamental dishonesty (perhaps a bit too strong a word), which is demostrated by cries of 'we all had to do the s**t jobs once upon a time' type of comments that posts like this tend to get as a response.

As with most things in RM, the unfairness is really created by weak management (who generally don't want to upset very senior staff but don't mind pressuring junior staff one bit) and the 'so long as I'm all right' culture that pervades many offices. Seniority wouldn't really be an issue if those two things changed. Which they won't.

[Chelseablue]

Benefits the company and customers if they have a long serving posty . Resigns are a waste of time , should be a minimum of 5 years kept on same duty when you sign for a duty anyway.

[wacko74]

The people who complain about seniority are the ones with very little seniority , when they have done 20 years plus they will be the same ones defending it.

Well I've done 18 years and I still basically have the only option of being a leave reserve or picking one the worst duties in the office.
From what I can see seniority only really benefits those who've done around 30-40 years and their duties have barely been altered in all that time.

If you have the option of picking a (rubbish) duty, don't you have the option of a floater duty before leave reserve?

We don't have specific floater duties in my current office, basically just walk holders and reserves covering whatever duties they know, be it for 1 day or 1 week... even the duty holders seem to get messed around a fair bit to be fair.

[roger]

In my office we keep having talk of a possible resign. Now this worries me as I am a duty holder on a okay duty but the fact is I am knowledgable about who is who, where I can get rid of packets etc. Anyway I have been with RM since DEC 2009, but my seniority only runs from I think late 2013 since I was shafted constantly being on rolling contracts with Angard. Anyway I don't see why I should get put on a shi* duty just cause most of my colleagues have been in the job longer. I only became a duty holder by the skin of my teeth as my part time colleague had slightly less seniority than me. Why not go by merit? I have been doing this duty on and off and now continuously for years and can reel off everyone's name practically on my duty, I wouldn't like to get put on the High ST for e.g just because my near retirement colleague has been in the job longer! It sucks and this same colleague thinks that even annual leave should be allocated due to seniority, what a crock!

Don't forget if your duty hasn't changed it doesn't have to go in the re-sign if you don'want it to.

[Seymour Buts]

And anyway, a few weeks on whatever new duty you'll get you'll know who to take parcels to ect. I haven't got a duty and know some that well I know where to take parcels to ect!

And when some neighbour says they never receieved such parcel how do you explain.

That it's standard practice to try neighbours unless the customer has opted out, it's Royal Mail policy. The company must know there's a risk involved.

[Dorset Plodder]

[quote="DGH"]

Seniority is really only an issue because workloads are blatantly unfair in most offices - it's almost certain that scrapping seniority and replacing it with, for instance, a random draw, would bring about a rapid rebalancing of walks as very senior staff would have no incentive to bag easier walks and keep schtum (as does happen, as we all know). Very True DGH, I agree that if the Seniority Monopoly was changed duties would very quickly be rebalanced.... I understand some DOs used to work in 4 man Teams that rotated around each other's duties,,,, these were very quickly evened out so that everyone in the Team was doing the same ammmount of work.......

I'm not saying that seniority should be scrapped, but it does encourage a certain fundamental dishonesty (perhaps a bit too strong a word), which is demostrated by cries of 'we all had to do the s**t jobs once upon a time' type of comments that posts like this tend to get as a response. I don't agree that some of these Very Senior Posties did actually have to do the Shite jobs years ago..... I would have done any of the Duties in the DO I first started in (and I did as a Reserve) in preference to most of the "Over-sized Duties" in my present DO.

As with most things in RM, the unfairness is really created by weak management (who generally don't want to upset very senior staff but don't mind pressuring junior staff one bit) and the 'so long as I'm all right' culture that pervades many offices. Seniority wouldn't really be an issue if those two things changed. Which they won't. Again I agree with your comment that RM Management is very weak in most DOs, and allows some of the more "Abrasive" characters to get away with not doing their job properly.

[cpsteve]

In my office we keep having talk of a possible resign. Now this worries me as I am a duty holder on a okay duty but the fact is I am knowledgable about who is who, where I can get rid of packets etc. Anyway I have been with RM since DEC 2009, but my seniority only runs from I think late 2013 since I was shafted constantly being on rolling contracts with Angard. Anyway I don't see why I should get put on a shi* duty just cause most of my colleagues have been in the job longer. I only became a duty holder by the skin of my teeth as my part time colleague had slightly less seniority than me. Why not go by merit? I have been doing this duty on and off and now continuously for years and can reel off everyone's name practically on my duty, I wouldn't like to get put on the High ST for e.g just because my near retirement colleague has been in the job longer! It sucks and this same colleague thinks that even annual leave should be allocated due to seniority, what a crock!

Don't forget if your duty hasn't changed it doesn't have to go in the re-sign if you don'want it to.

If only that was the case, in a full resign anyone senior to you can take your duty. I have been moved off of duties many times the last time was because the most senior postie left nothing had changed on any duty.

[kingeric]

I have good seniority and I don't like the ruling.

But unfortunately there isn't an obvious solution.

I agree with a lot if the points on here too.

My big issue which I have seen many times over the years is when guys with more seniority say it should stay because they want to keep their walk as they know all the customers. Yet as soon as they get an extra road or block of flats added onto their duty they're off that duty like a shot for an 'easier' duty.

In reality all duties should be even now, but we know they aren't so again the only reason seniority is embraced by some is to get the easy duties.

I personally don't care what they add to my walk I want to keep my customers. So for me it isn't about easier but staying where I am, even with extra drops added.

It's never going to happen but the only way you would get all the duties equal is for the office to all agree,and for people to believe that it would be drawn on lots. Then use seniority.

That's obviously not going to happen but it's the only way you won't get a little mafia trying to look after themselves.

Seen it too many times. I see it now with guys less senior to me trying to stitch up a guy with less seniority than them by making his walk huge and getting their walks easier because they're near each other.

[Celgar]

It should be possible to get all walks of the same type or maybe all types in each DO to pretty much the same length once RM have PDA and AHDC data collated. Then it shouldn't be possible to have **** duties in an DO that no one wants to sign for. Of course you may still have other variables such as blocks of flats, roads with very busy traffic, or personality problems with shared van walks. Eventually it should no longer be the case that any walk is significantly longer to complete.

[smok3y666]

Seniority is like everything else in RM, old and outdated.

[Woody Guthrie]

Seniority is like everything else in RM, old and outdated.

The "last in gets the job nobody else wants" scenario is prevalent in most industries. At least Royal Mail has guidelines that should be followed. Elsewhere in the real world things can be much worse with blatant sexism, racism and nepotism thrown in for good measure.

[greengiant]

Seniority is like everything else in RM, old and outdated.

So what do you propose to replace it with?

[deltaforce]

Seniority is like everything else in RM, old and outdated.

So what do you propose to replace it with?

Queue Jumping and noseing of the Brown stuff