Backdated pay for Angard

Bazza01 · Post by **Bazza01** » 13 Jul 2018, 20:10

Lockardian wrote:I’m wondering if they are considering reducing the Angard rate of pay but paying us for breaks instead? So still a rise but not as much? Evidently they are planning something.

If They had of just followed the rules in the first place and treated and paid AWR staff exactly the sane as Royal Mail staff instead of trying to bend the rules they would not of had any problems. The thing is how are they going to react to the Tribunal ruling as that basically says the higher rate is immaterial and that they should have given us paid breaks surely they owe everyone money for the 30 minutes of each shift ? which will take some working out and will cost them a fortune.

Post by **rogersh** » 13 Jul 2018, 20:15

Bazza01 wrote:The Latest is that Angard and Royal Mail are sorting things today and everyone should hear soon.

Can you give more details/source of your information. P.S. noted your subsequent post in union room

Bazza01 · Post by **Bazza01** » 13 Jul 2018, 20:23

rogersh wrote:
Bazza01 wrote:The Latest is that Angard and Royal Mail are sorting things today and everyone should hear soon.
Can you give more details/source of your information. P.S. noted your subsequent post in union room

I had a email from Angard today regarding this but as I have just said in a post on the union page I take everything that Angard tell me with a very large pinch of salt but we will see what happens. The best way to deal with Angard is just to be polite but firm with them. Would you bother to reply to someone who ranted and raved at you in my previous job the first swear word said to me and the phone went down.

Failureisnotanoption · Post by **Failureisnotanoption** » 13 Jul 2018, 20:56

Let’s hope this is positive news. been dragging on far to long and should have been sorted months back when the mail got there backpay. As for paid breaks I agree AWR should be on paid breaks. as for backdating unpaid breaks can’t see it happening but as m 4 years at Angard if it came of happy days but just getting the backdated pay would be a start.££££££

tabact · Post by **tabact** » 14 Jul 2018, 08:51

Bazza01 wrote:
Lockardian wrote:I’m wondering if they are considering reducing the Angard rate of pay but paying us for breaks instead? So still a rise but not as much? Evidently they are planning something.
If They had of just followed the rules in the first place and treated and paid AWR staff exactly the sane as Royal Mail staff instead of trying to bend the rules they would not of had any problems. The thing is how are they going to react to the Tribunal ruling as that basically says the higher rate is immaterial and that they should have given us paid breaks surely they owe everyone money for the 30 minutes of each shift ? which will take some working out and will cost them a fortune.

The tribunal said there had been no financial loss on breaks due to the higher hourly rate so Angard wouldn't owe anything for unpaid breaks. There could be more of an issue with holiday pay as you are not allowed to roll up holiday pay in the hourly rate and the tribunal found that there was no obvious evidence as to how Angard allowed for the equivalent RM staff getting two days more.

Bazza01 · Post by **Bazza01** » 14 Jul 2018, 09:54

tabact wrote:
Bazza01 wrote:
Lockardian wrote:I’m wondering if they are considering reducing the Angard rate of pay but paying us for breaks instead? So still a rise but not as much? Evidently they are planning something.
If They had of just followed the rules in the first place and treated and paid AWR staff exactly the sane as Royal Mail staff instead of trying to bend the rules they would not of had any problems. The thing is how are they going to react to the Tribunal ruling as that basically says the higher rate is immaterial and that they should have given us paid breaks surely they owe everyone money for the 30 minutes of each shift ? which will take some working out and will cost them a fortune.
The tribunal said there had been no financial loss on breaks due to the higher hourly rate so Angard wouldn't owe anything for unpaid breaks. There could be more of an issue with holiday pay as you are not allowed to roll up holiday pay in the hourly rate and the tribunal found that there was no obvious evidence as to how Angard allowed for the equivalent RM staff getting two days more.

Ground 3 is therefore upheld. There was a breach of Regulation 5(1) AWR in that the
Claimant did not receive at least the same pay for the rest break as employees.

That's Not What This appears to say though to be honest its mind numbing trying to read through the tribunal findings think we will just have to wait and see what occurs one thing is for sure this has definitely held up the payment of our back dated pay.

tabact · Post by **tabact** » 14 Jul 2018, 10:23

My mistake, I was reading through the judgement and it contains parts of the original tribunal that was appealed against and the original tribunal agreed with the argument that over a shift the Angard worker was paid more. This was addressed in the appeal about the total money paid per shift "The fact that the Claimant was paid more overall for the whole shift does not
change the fact that he was paid significantly less for the one-hour rest break"

I think that unless Angard were forced to pay compensation for a breach of the rules the fact that we haven't been 'underpaid' overall would still mean they could avoid back pay for breaks.

Bazza01 · Post by **Bazza01** » 14 Jul 2018, 11:01

tabact wrote:My mistake, I was reading through the judgement and it contains parts of the original tribunal that was appealed against and the original tribunal agreed with the argument that over a shift the Angard worker was paid more. This was addressed in the appeal about the total money paid per shift "The fact that the Claimant was paid more overall for the whole shift does not
change the fact that he was paid significantly less for the one-hour rest break"

I think that unless Angard were forced to pay compensation for a breach of the rules the fact that we haven't been 'underpaid' overall would still mean they could avoid back pay for breaks.

One thing is for sure they will not pay a penny more than they have to think this one is best left to the legal boffins its far to complicated for us normal people. Still as I said before if they just followed the rules properly in the first place rather than trying to be clever. They told ne once the reason why we are paid differently is because there computer system is not compatible with the Royal Mail Salary Programme that may be true who knows but there are ways around that.

tabact · Post by **tabact** » 14 Jul 2018, 11:39

Bazza01 wrote:
One thing is for sure they will not pay a penny more than they have to think this one is best left to the legal boffins its far to complicated for us normal people. Still as I said before if they just followed the rules properly in the first place rather than trying to be clever. They told ne once the reason why we are paid differently is because there computer system is not compatible with the Royal Mail Salary Programme that may be true who knows but there are ways around that.

The enhanced pay rate is also supposed to compensate for things like RM staff getting a better pension, uniform and other sundries so when taken into account we get the equivalent equal pay. Angard have always refused to break down the hourly rate when I have asked, just given a generic answer about covering breaks so we should still be on a higher hourly rate even if breaks are paid. The next challenge will be to get Royal Mail managers to give us the same breaks as RM staff if they are to be paid. Where I work you used to get a 15 minute break on 4 hour shifts then that was stopped and when I complained to Angard was fobbed off with that is down to RM and you are paid for four hours, nothing we can do, then finally the old Angard standby ignored my emails completely.

NW11851 · Post by **NW11851** » 14 Jul 2018, 21:43

But at Gatwick MC we are NOT paid 4 hours for a 4-hour Shift of 18:15 - 22:15.

30 minutes is deducted regardless of whether or not we have a break.

We usually get a 15-minute break and are allowed to leave at 22:00.

If we don’t get a break we walk out at 21:45.

By the way, the AWR specifically states that beaks have to be taken somewhere in the shift, not at the beginning nor the end - but that doesn’t suit the floor managers.

I still like working for them even if it is through Angard.

Bazza01 · Post by **Bazza01** » 18 Jul 2018, 20:51

NW11851 wrote:But at Gatwick MC we are NOT paid 4 hours for a 4-hour Shift of 18:15 - 22:15.

30 minutes is deducted regardless of whether or not we have a break.

We usually get a 15-minute break and are allowed to leave at 22:00.

If we don’t get a break we walk out at 21:45.

By the way, the AWR specifically states that beaks have to be taken somewhere in the shift, not at the beginning nor the end - but that doesn’t suit the floor managers.

I still like working for them even if it is through Angard.

My Advice would be to bombard Angard with questions about both the back dated pay they still have failed to pay and also regarding their failure to follow the rules regarding breaks and what they intend to do about it?.

NW11851 · Post by **NW11851** » 19 Jul 2018, 13:16

Any news yet re backdated pay?

CWU gave just sent our s ballot to RM Members re this years’s offer, while we still await payment of last year’s.

I appreciate that there are many issues of parity, EAT ruling to sort out but this is becoming ridiculous.

tabact · Post by **tabact** » 25 Jul 2018, 15:34

Latest from Angard is 'near future' for the payout. Your guess is as good as mine how long that means. Why they can't give at least a provisional date for doing it is beyond me.

Bazza01 · Post by **Bazza01** » 25 Jul 2018, 16:09

[quote="tabact"]Latest from Angard is 'near future' for the payout. Your guess is as good as mine how long that means. Why they can't give at least a provisional date for doing it is beyond me.

If I had to guess I would say the end of August I am in no doubt the tribunal loss is the reason for the delay which I think they are going to have to compensate us for ?.

nothingatthemoment · Post by **nothingatthemoment** » 27 Jul 2018, 16:09

Bazza01 wrote:
tabact wrote:Latest from Angard is 'near future' for the payout. Your guess is as good as mine how long that means. Why they can't give at least a provisional date for doing it is beyond me.

If I had to guess I would say the end of August I am in no doubt the tribunal loss is the reason for the delay which I think they are going to have to compensate us for ?.

Whatever the reason this is unacceptable , at the very least Angard should inform you of the progress at each step , it is 3 months since RM staff received their back-dated pay , at the end off August this will then be over 4 months , why ?.