A look at some salaries

[fedup postie]

Allan Leighton for working 2 days a week - £210,000 (2005/2006)

Adam Crozier - £1,038,000

Tony Blair - £186,429 for running the country!!!!!

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/Public ... chList.pdf

Some interesting reading on there!

As we all know, Leighton and Crozier say that we are paid far more than the competetors for the work we do, well if you look at the Chief Executive for the DVLA Clive Bennett earns £167,000 so why does Crozier earn £1,038,000. Perhaps he should be paid the same as other people in similar roles as himself.

I wonder how much Nick wells Chief Executive for TNT earns?

[F0zziebear]

Fedup Postie your analysis of salaries doesn't make sense.

I would love to earn a salary like theirs but do not, but then my job doesn't come with the responsibility they have either. The DVLA is not there to make a profit. I agree that comparing the cheif exec. of TNT and RM is a better idea, but then the RM's revenues and complexity is much larger than TNT's so the comparison isn't the same. It would be like comparing the salary of the manager of Man Utd with that of the manager of Leeds (inside joke there).

You are better off comparing this salary with that of a similar sized revneue organisation. Assuming RM have revenues of £9bn then you'll find his salary is actually below market rate.

I do not defend them getting ridiculous salaries or bonus's. I personally have more problem with the marketing employees salaries, which are much higher than those of Ops mgrs who have a much tougher time. Middle management salaries are too much without much responsibility. I spent alot of time trying to get as many of these people out the door.

You may have gripes with what they earn, but they work hard. They used to get in before me and regularly leave after me. Leighton may only get paid for a few days work per week, but again he works longer hours than he has to. Both men started their careers at the lower end of a company and successfully worked their way up.

You do get paid more than the competition. What they are referring to are processing employees. The competition don't have posties so there is no comparison, though if they did have posties they would tie their wages more closely to the volume of mail delivered, but over and above the minimum wage. Personally this allows those who deliver more get paid more.

Right before you throw tomatoes I'm off

F0zz

[South East Postie]

Leighton may only get paid for a few days work per week, but again he works longer hours than he has to.

poor old al.

[fedup postie]

Thanks Fozz, I know that the DVLA is not the same as RM, like I said, I would like to know what the TNT or DHL CE earn.
However, the comparison that you missed was the wage that our PM gets compared to The two Al's are you saying that he does not work harder than any of them. We may not all agree with the decisions the PM makes but for the load on his shoulders, I would say he should be paid far more than what he is.

[fedup postie]

Leighton may only get paid for a few days work per week, but again he works longer hours than he has to.

poor old al.

And where is the proof that he works longer hours than he has to? Don't forget he has other jobs too so does that mean he neglects that job to finish work for RM?

[POSTMAN]

No the Government doesn't want a Government service to make money

Anyway FOzz not going to go over old ground with you about tweedle dum and tweedle dee's wages.
But interestingly the Union we're going to use TNT CEO's wages as a turnaround as Crozier want us to be on parity with them,Mr Wells is on bundles more than him,so the stance was that Crozier wants the same wages as him.
But no noise from the Union on that front yet.

I've said it before and for the newbies on here,the chances are they were approached by Blair and the lads,and they named their own price,and worked out a contract.
So that makes them even more greedier bastards than what we 1st thought.

[F0zziebear]

I was at a talk by Leighton last autumn and he said he was approached about the NHS but turned it down. I think you are right about Blair approaching Leighton and Leighton brought in Crozier. In terms of naming their price, maybe. Crozier's profile was big and could have gone to numerous roles and Leighton could have gone almost anywhere. This is not to excuse their greediness if indeed this was the case. Since the government privatised RM then they are there to make money, the only difference is the factthat the government have held onto all the shares as it would be political suicide to sell those shares.

I am just triyng to provide some balance as all they are trying to do is create a successful business. You may disagree with this, but at least they have a direction and are sticking to it. Prior to them we had public sector civil servants trying to run a private business and squandered millons on foreign companies such as 4th largest postal operater in Poland.

I remember turning upto a focus group after a day in the delivery office and saw people sipping champagne and eating strawberries. Why you may ask? Well they were celebrating the 40,000 person who had registered on RM's home shopping website. They were celebrating people spending money! Now that was sickening and would have taken everyone out on strike for such nonsense.

Right to the pub

Tomato juice for the missus

[redvan]

In our office we got hold of a TNT job advert and it was 365 per week and bonus showed to the manager and he said it was for a manager which it was for a driver he soon went quite as i said he must be on double that amount in a week

[F0zziebear]

The competition aren't necessarily paying less. What they are trying to do is relate pay more closely to volume. Parcelforce also has a pay per drop wage scale. It seems to encourage those who are willing to put in extra effort to deliver parcels. They are regularly known for going back to a drop point and try to re-deliver a parcel. I saw a Parcelforce driver continue to deliver mail during a minute's silence after 7/7. Is this right? Parcelforce had to re-desgn it's business to compete in a completely privatised and liberalised business. Is this the future for the mail business?

Private posties are likely on average to earn about £1 per hour less on average than RM posties. It is not possible to compete against RM posties as the competiton need to offer 10% minimum believe RM prices to convince customers to try them out. This is proven by rigorous market research.

Hope this makes sense?

F0zz

[side_door]

I would love to earn a salary like theirs but do not, but then my job doesn't come with the responsibility

Does theirs?
Leighton and Crozier are leading us to a National strike. Even if the CWU comes to an agreement with them, they will still have managed to unite and mobilize the workforce against them. Don't get me wrong -I'm all in favour of this. But from the shareholder, government point of view that is not good news. It could mean massive fines from postcomm, loss of their business customers, a setback to their plans for modernisation. This is a mistake for them.

What are the consequences of that mistake for them personally? At worst they leave with a very generous severance.

Lets look at the position for a postman who makes a mistake. I got my job at RM because three postman were sacked after a bag inspection. One of the people sacked, as I understand it, had only one item of second class mail.

Consequences. He was made immediately unemployed. No generous severance. His chances of getting another job, having been sacked by RM - well, you tell me.

That is responsibility. If you fail in your job there are consequences. Personally devastating consequences. It is not the same for those at the top of company who have already recieved enough to keep them in luxury for several lifetimes.

As for working hard. After the SDD I was delivering two walks per day, sorting and then delivering. Sometimes even more than that, because managers were begging me. I was not alone in being pressured to work my day off, and on a number of occassions phoned up when I was on annual leave to come in to work. Yes I got paid this work. But let me assure you it wasn't in the millions. On Sundays, I was physically incapable of activity. That is hard work. I have done the other kind. I have worked nearly 50 hours straight (I was a research student) -- it really is not the same thing at all. If you are committed to something and you enjoy doing it you can put these hours in -- I wasn't even getting paid for them.

Elsewhere you talk about comparing apples and pears or somesuch. The hard work and responsibiity of the required of the average postman is not the same kind as those required of the senior executive on fantastic wages. It is the real kind.[/quote]

[F0zziebear]

I have some sympathy regarding resonsibility and consequences. I left frontline Ops Management as much because of the potential exposure to grievances and the consequences of making mistakes. There is not anytwhere near the same exposure in non-frontline jobs. I agree that once you get to the top of a company this doesn't seem to exist. I have no comback on this. Look at Peter Mandelson, gets caught over mortgages and then becomes an EU comissioner for something.

As for work and 'real work' I don't accept that. Chief Execs and other senior heads make decisions that have far reaching consequences for a whole organisation. Crozier was not happy about SDD, Mail Centre Review or Transport Review. He came in after it had started and he couldn't stop it completely. Some trains were introduced, and the implementation of SDD took a slightly more human approach.

The pressure on frontline managers and postmen is increasing and there isn't always a good enough understanding or unwillingness to listen to legitimate problems. The people who run RM Ops are Ops people. Tom Melvin, Paul Tolhurst, and their team (see 6:15am start for a list of those invovled in running senior Ops). I did find that they didn't want to hear about problems, which is why there is a culture of begging people to fill the cracks that are appearing in the operation.

I personally favour getting rid of more people, but paying the remaining people a salary that attracts high performance and bring in new posties of a higher calibure. Many of the new recruits I personally saw were useless and a drain on resources without getting a return. This may not be the case everywhere else and don't want to generalise for the whole country based on a narrow experience.

If you are baling people out then that is great, but you are helping to hide problems in the manpower planning of your depot. A manpower planning tool exists which they should be using so that problems like this don't happen.

good luck F0zz

[billypants]

FOZZIEBEAR you talk about people who deliver more getting paid more but how on earth could you put this kind of scheme into place in a delivery office. For example I deliver to 500 calls and take out 6 bags a day whilst my colleague in the same office delivers to 220 calls and takes out 4 bags, however we both work just as hard and it takes us just as long because my calls are all just steps apart whilst his can be up to a 10min walk to each.

I deserve no more than him but on paper I deliver more so would I get more under this scheme ?

[Big Daz]

FOZZIEBEAR you talk about people who deliver more getting paid more but how on earth could you put this kind of scheme into place in a delivery office. For example I deliver to 500 calls and take out 6 bags a day whilst my colleague in the same office delivers to 220 calls and takes out 4 bags, however we both work just as hard and it takes us just as long because my calls are all just steps apart whilst his can be up to a 10min walk to each.

I deserve no more than him but on paper I deliver more so would I get more under this scheme ?

Exactly!

In my office we work on a 2 week rotate, to decide which dels we would do we start at the top of seniority list and picked a duty on week 1 and then did the same again on week 2 rather than group 2 duties together and picka group.

My 2 duties are very different

Walk 9 is a council estate with flats taking up between 20% to 25% of the stops. It has 483 calls.

Walk 33 is less than 350 calls (i think, i get used as a reserve despite holding 2 duties and havent done 33 duty for a while.) and being more than half way up the seniority list but has 95% detached houses with driveways to go up. You can cycle up some of them as the customers are at work and empty driveways, but come saturday they are not at work cars on drive way making the saturday time saving less than you would expect by not having M3.



Both rounds take a similar amount of time!

[POSTMAN]

Parcelforce guys get a wage,then they get a rate per packet over their allocated target.

Lets not get on the low pay but bonus if you do this or that malarkey.

[F0zziebear]

In the business case I led there was a quite complex delivery spreadsheet based on numerous tests carried out (no-one thanfully commented in the public on them). We were able to work out average time to do the various parts of a round. Using other programmes on the day the workload comes in we would be able to work out how much a delivery round is worth. This is because the only mail a competitor will take (almost exclusively) will be known 24-48 hrs in advance.

It is harder to do this in RM and a higher proportion should be as a basic.

I was mainly referring to management wages, which in non-ops roles in my opinion is too high relative to the responsibility taken.

A good example of a company doing this is Selektmail in Holland.

F0zz