Ghosting hours

citypostie · Post by **citypostie** » 09 Jun 2018, 15:18

clashcityrocker wrote:
world class male wrote: it's an agreed payment between the dom and postie for extra work done after completing their own duty, so not fraud.
Given that the national agreement talks of utilising all paid hours, I am not sure that the DOM has the authority to authorise ghost overtime.
And certainly not just for his favourites.

Doms don't stick to most national agreements so why should that one be any different?

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 09 Jun 2018, 15:55

citypostie wrote:
Doms don't stick to most national agreements so why should that one be any different?

Neither do most union reps.
It doesn't make the stuff they come up with right or legal.
It would be a bit like saying the DOM authorised you to drive without a seat belt.

In fact I can't see the point in having any national agreements if everyone thinks they can turn a blind eye to them as and when it suits.

number one · Post by **number one** » 09 Jun 2018, 16:50

clashcityrocker wrote:
citypostie wrote:
Doms don't stick to most national agreements so why should that one be any different?
Neither do most union reps.
It doesn't make the stuff they come up with right or legal.
It would be a bit like saying the DOM authorised you to drive without a seat belt.

In fact I can't see the point in having any national agreements if everyone thinks they can turn a blind eye to them as and when it suits.

Nothing like saying that at all.

world class male · Post by **world class male** » 09 Jun 2018, 18:22

clashcityrocker wrote:
world class male wrote: it's an agreed payment between the dom and postie for extra work done after completing their own duty, so not fraud.
Given that the national agreement talks of utilising all paid hours, I am not sure that the DOM has the authority to authorise ghost overtime.
And certainly not just for his favourites.

maybe if he was collared ,but we live in the real world, needs must and a dom will use whatever means to clear, fair enough if it doesn't mean forced lapsing and leave own duty parcels which does happen daily, but if he can dodge a bullet by going a few hours over budget it's a win win situation by both parties yes?
and as said before "local agreements" are used to maintain his/hers and the reps status quo for other reasons we best not go in to

Creditshampoo · Post by **Creditshampoo** » 09 Jun 2018, 18:38

clashcityrocker wrote:
world class male wrote: it's an agreed payment between the dom and postie for extra work done after completing their own duty, so not fraud.
Given that the national agreement talks of utilising all paid hours, I am not sure that the DOM has the authority to authorise ghost overtime.
And certainly not just for his favourites.

I agree. Managers have been dealt with under conduct code due to allowing this.

world class male · Post by **world class male** » 09 Jun 2018, 20:08

old news, if the postie in question doesn't get "looked after" they refuse the overtime
nothing wrong in principle but if it gets them out of lapsing then it stinks for us regular posties
don't think pda data will solve the problem either

chrisj · Post by **chrisj** » 10 Jun 2018, 19:21

The problem here is that someone that does not want to help out (as you say) in terms of overtime is made to go back out if the person finishes early.
So the helpers should only be paid for any time they do over their contractual hours. So part of the deal is unfair and also fraudulent in some ways; especially if an helper is on an easier walk...

Post by **TheBushBaby** » 10 Jun 2018, 23:05

Its fraud and against company policy, so get over it.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 11 Jun 2018, 14:28

TheBushBaby wrote:Its fraud and against company policy, so get over it.

To be absolutely correct - it is fraud, however, you are unlikely to be prosecuted for it as it is a contractual issue.

However, both the manager and the postie involved could be dismissed for misconduct as it is against our contract of employment, and against current collective agreements. But if you know the risks and deem them acceptable I am not going to judge anyone.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 11 Jun 2018, 18:15

It's very much fraud and we've had a couple of colleagues dismissed for it.
Doesn't matter what the boss (whatever grade or title he has) offers, to sign for/accept that overtime has been worked but leave before the end of that time period is fraud, and to say by way of an excuse that "he said I could" or "everyone does it" won't wash.
There's a million reasons why someone could have left before the end of their duty period, but not one for leaving early on O/T but booking as if they'd worked it.

number one · Post by **number one** » 11 Jun 2018, 19:37

Tman wrote:It's very much fraud and we've had a couple of colleagues dismissed for it.
Doesn't matter what the boss (whatever grade or title he has) offers, to sign for/accept that overtime has been worked but leave before the end of that time period is fraud, and to say by way of an excuse that "he said I could" or "everyone does it" won't wash.
There's a million reasons why someone could have left before the end of their duty period, but not one for leaving early on O/T but booking as if they'd worked it.

I think people need to look up the definition of fraud as this isn’t fraud!!

Post by **aiden01** » 11 Jun 2018, 19:42

number one wrote:
Tman wrote:It's very much fraud and we've had a couple of colleagues dismissed for it.
Doesn't matter what the boss (whatever grade or title he has) offers, to sign for/accept that overtime has been worked but leave before the end of that time period is fraud, and to say by way of an excuse that "he said I could" or "everyone does it" won't wash.
There's a million reasons why someone could have left before the end of their duty period, but not one for leaving early on O/T but booking as if they'd worked it.

I think people need to look up the definition of fraud as this isn’t fraud!!

It is fraud end of

Driver74 · Post by **Driver74** » 11 Jun 2018, 20:24

So if anyone who works any overtime gets finished before their finish time is classed as fraud there wouldn’t be many staff left in Royal Mail

number one · Post by **number one** » 11 Jun 2018, 20:56

aiden01 wrote:
number one wrote:
Tman wrote:It's very much fraud and we've had a couple of colleagues dismissed for it.
Doesn't matter what the boss (whatever grade or title he has) offers, to sign for/accept that overtime has been worked but leave before the end of that time period is fraud, and to say by way of an excuse that "he said I could" or "everyone does it" won't wash.
There's a million reasons why someone could have left before the end of their duty period, but not one for leaving early on O/T but booking as if they'd worked it.

I think people need to look up the definition of fraud as this isn’t fraud!!
It is fraud end of

Just because you keep saying it doesn’t automatically make it right.

So if you’re finish time is 14:30 and you finish at 14:00 is that fraud?

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 11 Jun 2018, 21:47

number one wrote:
I think people need to look up the definition of fraud as this isn’t fraud!!

Claiming you've worked O/T hours when you haven't isn't fraud? It'll get you the sack from any company.