2020 Pay deal, What would we like/accept

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 04 Apr 2018, 11:39

After RM was sold off there was originally a date from which RM could pull out of the USO if they chose to. A lot of money could be saved by switching to a five day operation. Management has always suggested that Tuesday would be the second day that the business would shut as the least amount of mail is sorted by MC on that day. Highly unlikely RM would opt for Saturday & Sunday closure although that would make even more savings than dropping Tuesday.
Big business & investors are saying that automation of parcel sorting is what RM needs to do to enlarge capacity and make more profit. The problem then will be in DOs as we are at breaking point and there is very little capacity left to do much more work. So RM would then need to start reversing the program of reducing numbers of walks along with absorption & lapsing.
It now looks like it isn't going to be viable to pre-bundle D2Ds or to automate sorting of flats in terms of space for machinery and time savings.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 04 Apr 2018, 13:44

Celgar wrote:After RM was sold off there was originally a date from which RM could pull out of the USO if they chose to. A lot of money could be saved by switching to a five day operation. Management has always suggested that Tuesday would be the second day that the business would shut as the least amount of mail is sorted by MC on that day. Highly unlikely RM would opt for Saturday & Sunday closure although that would make even more savings than dropping Tuesday.
Big business & investors are saying that automation of parcel sorting is what RM needs to do to enlarge capacity and make more profit. The problem then will be in DOs as we are at breaking point and there is very little capacity left to do much more work. So RM would then need to start reversing the program of reducing numbers of walks along with absorption & lapsing.
It now looks like it isn't going to be viable to pre-bundle D2Ds or to automate sorting of flats in terms of space for machinery and time savings.

Tuesdays is the busiest day on night shifts in MC. There's no way that MCs will ever close on a Tuesday

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 04 Apr 2018, 18:19

Royal Mail will not be dropping any day of the week from having delivery. However I do believe that Royal Mail’s direction. Of travel within the next few years is what they originally proposed within the original negotiations and that is that on 3 days per week only first class and premium products will go out and on the remaining days all Mail will go out.

This is happening in more and more countries. Remember only 42% of what is delivered per day is covered by the USO commitment.

The CWU stopped this within these negotitiations , something Royal Mail called the heavy and light model. Obviously if they ever did introduce this than this would have a massive impact on jobs.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 04 Apr 2018, 20:01

Having one wave of mech every day plus D2D collating machines and delivering mail without using sorting frames would also have a massive impact on our jobs and RM appear to have been given the green light from the CWU who have whole-heartedly endorsed it to push them forward at trials.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 04 Apr 2018, 20:10

There a long time from having one wave. Yes they want Door to Door collation but when have Royal Mail ever had to have an agreement on what automation they use. The CWU only deals with the impact from automation.

In terms of the trails on not sorting into frames well we will have to see what those trials actually prove and remember the outcome of these trails are subject to further negotiations and a new Delivery Agreement which will be subject to an individual member ballot some time in 2019.

Darren Bent · Post by **Darren Bent** » 04 Apr 2018, 20:33

If we go five days a week RM could cut Monday out so we have a weekend from Saturday night to Tuesday morning instead of Friday night to Monday morning like most people. But the pay talk vote could be difficult as there will be workers wanting to keep their floating week off perks.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 04 Apr 2018, 20:43

Ok fair enough dingo

I get the idea of pushing the start times back to accommodate the impact of automation, that sort of makes sense. There might be a slight rush getting the specials delivered first and this will mean less time to do more outdoor loops because at present we get a good portion of the specials done as we walk the loops. Problem is I'm sure Royal Mail are only planning to introduce automation/change pipeline to give us all a bigger outdoor delivery span otherwise whats the point of doing it? Its going to be a massive change, will take a lot of planning and could lead to many problems in our quality of service as we go into transition. The point is if the finish time isn't going to change by more than half an hour, and we all start later, how on earth are they going to do it?? Its pure speculation but if we don't start our deliveries until 10 or 11 and finish at 3, then thats just a 4 or 5 hour delivery span

Thats where the problem lies in future because I guess most posties don't really want 5pm finishes.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 04 Apr 2018, 20:47

dingo wrote:There a long time from having one wave.

One wave is impossible, some DOs would get their mail too late and if you get a bulk posting it would be physically impossible.

Say for example the MC covering your DO gets their sequenced mail last of all DOs covered by your MC, with one wave you could easily be looking at midday before the batches covering your DO get run

gary1975 · Post by **gary1975** » 04 Apr 2018, 20:53

When will pay rise be implemented Dingo?

number one · Post by **number one** » 04 Apr 2018, 21:32

For those talking about one wave forget it. On trials some offices were getting their mail at 2pm.
It’s all been shelved.

gb93 · Post by **gb93** » 05 Apr 2018, 10:55

Can you explain please dingo why RM won't go to a 5 day letter delivery model. Or do you mean the cwu would fight all the way against it.
If parcels are the growth & letters are declining it makes sense to me to drop a letter delivery day & replace it with 2 parcel delivery days sat & sun.

number one · Post by **number one** » 05 Apr 2018, 12:53

gb93 wrote:Can you explain please dingo why RM won't go to a 5 day letter delivery model. Or do you mean the cwu would fight all the way against it.
If parcels are the growth & letters are declining it makes sense to me to drop a letter delivery day & replace it with 2 parcel delivery days sat & sun.

And thousands of job losses??? Great idea!

gb93 · Post by **gb93** » 05 Apr 2018, 13:36

number one wrote:
gb93 wrote:Can you explain please dingo why RM won't go to a 5 day letter delivery model. Or do you mean the cwu would fight all the way against it.
If parcels are the growth & letters are declining it makes sense to me to drop a letter delivery day & replace it with 2 parcel delivery days sat & sun.
And thousands of job losses??? Great idea!

Going off here & local offices there are thousands who would like to get out. Give them the opportunity with decent package.
And give those who choose to stay or are left a better deal.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 05 Apr 2018, 16:07

gary1975 wrote:When will pay rise be implemented Dingo?

I assume an announcement will be made tomorrow on when the pay increase is introduced along with back pay. Remember after every pay deal there has to be an agreed pay directive. This time it is even more important as we now have the transitional pension in place.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 05 Apr 2018, 16:24

gb93 wrote:Can you explain please dingo why RM won't go to a 5 day letter delivery model. Or do you mean the cwu would fight all the way against it.
If parcels are the growth & letters are declining it makes sense to me to drop a letter delivery day & replace it with 2 parcel delivery days sat & sun.

As I have said , no Postal company is dropping any days from delivery due to the massive growth in parcels and the customer demand to have parcels delivered either the next day or same day.

Royal Mail only make money on parcels when they deliver letters and parcels together. This is why Royal Mail have not rolled out the Sunday M25 parcel trial.

The CWU have forced Royal Mail to only deliver 80% of the new LAT product on the core delivery from October in order to prevent moving to a 9-5 Operation. This is why 20% of the new LAT product will be delivered Monday to Saturday in the afternoon up to 19:00 by the options which are listed in the agreement does not compel delivery offices to move later. By delivering parcels only it increases the costs of delivering parcels and reduces what they make from the new product.

As I said most Postal carriers in Europe and wider world are moving to a heavy and light day model rather than reducing the day’s where Mail is delivered. In the initial 4 pillar National Talks Royal Mail wanted to reduce what they deliver , process , transport and collect on 3 days per week to only First class and premium products , the unio. Stopped this but this is far more likely the model Royal Mail will revisit.

Royal Mail are much stricter on Voluntary redundancies and the criteria for it nowadays as they got caught out a couple of years where full timers were taking VR on an average of £50 grand pay out and within weeks / months part timers were either working those hours on overtime or getting a full time contract.