Four Pillars Agreement Tour

[BELIAL]

an eviscerated pension scheme ,which, if agreed ,gives RM carte blanche to carry out future smash and grabs.

How so - and on what?

The proposal is for a DC scheme ,which is exactly what RM wanted. As soon as the benefit is no longer defined the contribution will shrink. "you're all living longer ; the fund has failed to perform ;large scale redundancies; fleet,engineering ,etc has been outsourced and are no longer part of the scheme so the collective pot has vanished.Fee's are unknown but admin of the fund will be churned and fee's will increase with every swap. Sure you are guaranteed your lump sum, but what about the rest of the money you were promised when you signed your contract

[LouBarlow]

I'm not sure how people can claim to not be informed on the provisional agreement - the last two RMTVs I've watched in WTL have featured them heavily, with yesterdays focussing on pensions alone. And yes, nobody in our office understood a word of it.

Unless nobody else has WTLs on a Tuesday of course, which would make it a local issue.

We don't need union leaders spending more of our money on a publicity tour - send out a memo with the key points on it and be done with it.

[k979aaa]

Is it not a case of persuading the sheep that will listen and follow them after the travesty's of years gone by. But we are no longer the sheep we have become rams and headbutt this so called deal into the middle of the next millennium this deal is a kick the can down the road deal nothing good will come good for us all only crap pensions and crapper working conditions!

[postslippete]

Yeah, like many hard working posties I desperately wanted the Union to get us a really great deal. I wanted an agreement that I could definitely vote YES. But lets be honest, the Union have overlooked quite a few things and it would appear that Royal Mail have a very good side to the deal.


Lets take the 9 till 5pm option that Royal Mail wanted pre-agreement. Come on, seriously?? It was never going to happen right here and now in a month of Sundays. I reckon over 90% of posties prefer the earlier starts and finish; its not just the fact that some of us have other commitments but its also the main reason why a lot of staff come in early and skip breaks - so they can finish early!!

We should never have compromised on our pensions. Unaffordable?? Absolute b*ll*cks!! The CWU are selling us short on that one but never mind just think of the pay rises and back dated pay. The Royal Mail were very keen to explain to us about the new pension scheme in WTLL, which tells me everything that I need to know about it not being the best pension for us.

And was it really about pay?? First we had the company telling us that we were overpaid and compared us to Yodel and Hermes. More reverse pschology. And something tells me that the Union could probably have set the bar even higher on pay - as long as RM could introduce their automation and get rid of our sorting frames. The golden one wave of mech. The game changer that will undoubtedly lead to bigger duties and less postal staff required to deliver it. Even worse, I'm fearing the company will be using PDA actuals to track where we are and what we are doing. Theres a big problem with this. Remember when Royal Mail once said that we should be walking at least 4mph to keep up with delivery targets. This system was based on Pegasus, and we all know that was complete nonsense.

We don't want the Union leaders going on their publicity tour to "engage us" with what they have agreed because it has already been penned out. There is no 5th pillar to deal with bullying and harassment in offices, its just words that got said at a meeting.

[Martin Walsh]

There was a select committee on today of the DWP , there was a general discussion on the pros and cons of a CDC scheme , the union’s pension advisor Hilary Salt gives evidence .

Additionly Jon Milledge from Royal Mail and Ray Ellis from the CWU give an update to the select committee on the deal and reveal they have been meeting the minster and representatives from the DWP and believe that only minor changes are necessary to introduce the proposed scheme.

Someone should post the link very intresting.

[Stunners]

Yeah, like many hard working posties I desperately wanted the Union to get us a really great deal. I wanted an agreement that I could definitely vote YES. But lets be honest, the Union have overlooked quite a few things and it would appear that Royal Mail have a very good side to the deal.


Lets take the 9 till 5pm option that Royal Mail wanted pre-agreement. Come on, seriously?? It was never going to happen right here and now in a month of Sundays. I reckon over 90% of posties prefer the earlier starts and finish; its not just the fact that some of us have other commitments but its also the main reason why a lot of staff come in early and skip breaks - so they can finish early!!

We should never have compromised on our pensions. Unaffordable?? Absolute b*ll*cks!! The CWU are selling us short on that one but never mind just think of the pay rises and back dated pay. The Royal Mail were very keen to explain to us about the new pension scheme in WTLL, which tells me everything that I need to know about it not being the best pension for us.

And was it really about pay?? First we had the company telling us that we were overpaid and compared us to Yodel and Hermes. More reverse pschology. And something tells me that the Union could probably have set the bar even higher on pay - as long as RM could introduce their automation and get rid of our sorting frames. The golden one wave of mech. The game changer that will undoubtedly lead to bigger duties and less postal staff required to deliver it. Even worse, I'm fearing the company will be using PDA actuals to track where we are and what we are doing. Theres a big problem with this. Remember when Royal Mail once said that we should be walking at least 4mph to keep up with delivery targets. This system was based on Pegasus, and we all know that was complete nonsense.

We don't want the Union leaders going on their publicity tour to "engage us" with what they have agreed because it has already been penned out. There is no 5th pillar to deal with bullying and harassment in offices, its just words that got said at a meeting.

So you think the pension we have is affordable and Royal Mail would never have got us working till 5 ..are you serious ?

[Celgar]

I honestly cannot see how they can get rid of the sorting frames in the delivery offices. If they did manage to do so the job is going to take a lot longer to do when RM want to save time. It is a genuinely lunatic idea. The rumour seems to be that our great leader is about to leave the nest so maybe the next occupant will have common sense and some intelligence.

[Celgar]

Stunners you need to read the proposal/agreement. A maximum delivery time of 1630 has been set for rural deliveries in it. So we are on the path to where RM wish to end up where we deliver when more people may be home from work in the mid to late afternoon.

[wacko74]

Stunners you need to read the proposal/agreement. A maximum delivery time of 1630 has been set for rural deliveries in it. So we are on the path to where RM wish to end up where we deliver when more people may be home from work in the mid to late afternoon.

If delivering to people when they're at home really is a key target for RM then I can say with absolute certainty that later start and finish times is not the answer.
Speaking as someone who has done xmas pkt duties for the last 17 years, you catch most people in between 7-10a.m. and fewest people in between 3-5p.m.

(But what would I know, I'm just a thick postie)

[SpacePhoenix]

I honestly cannot see how they can get rid of the sorting frames in the delivery offices. If they did manage to do so the job is going to take a lot longer to do when RM want to save time. It is a genuinely lunatic idea.

They could do but it would cost RM millions as every MC and MPU would need new machines as afaik no machine that RM currently has can sort/sequence flats and letters together

[Martin Walsh]

Stunners you need to read the proposal/agreement. A maximum delivery time of 1630 has been set for rural deliveries in it. So we are on the path to where RM wish to end up where we deliver when more people may be home from work in the mid to late afternoon.

Rurals SPDOs last letter now is 16:00 and the reason they need later than town and cities is that in most cases the workloads goes to the town/city delivery office and than is forwarded onto the SPDO.

Remember Royal Mail"s strategy of 9-5 was based on cancelling all flights which carried mail. The only reason delivery offices start early is that Royal Mail pay millions to fly the work around the country to connect with early start times. Remember the outward mail centre final dispatch is around 22:00 and therefore to get work from Scotland into the inward mail centres in South East and South West is has to be flown.

Royal Mail wanted to cancel all flights which did not go over water i.e. only those to the Channel Island , Ireland would remain. This would have save Royal Mail between 50 to 60 million pounds.

The net result would have been that the work would need to be trunked by road around the UK and would have arrived much later and as Royal Mail have a legal contract to delivery the USO than start times would have been from 0800 or 0900.

[cloherty1976]

Stunners you need to read the proposal/agreement. A maximum delivery time of 1630 has been set for rural deliveries in it. So we are on the path to where RM wish to end up where we deliver when more people may be home from work in the mid to late afternoon.

Rurals SPDOs last letter now is 16:00 and the reason they need later than town and cities is that in most cases the workloads goes to the town/city delivery office and than is forwarded onto the SPDO.

Remember Royal Mail"s strategy of 9-5 was based on cancelling all flights which carried mail. The only reason delivery offices start early is that Royal Mail pay millions to fly the work around the country to connect with early start times. Remember the outward mail centre final dispatch is around 22:00 and therefore to get work from Scotland into the inward mail centres in South East and South West is has to be flown.

Royal Mail wanted to cancel all flights which did not go over water i.e. only those to the Channel Island , Ireland would remain. This would have save Royal Mail between 50 to 60 million pounds.

The net result would have been that the work would need to be trunked by road around the UK and would have arrived much later and as Royal Mail have a legal contract to delivery the USO than start times would have been from 0800 or 0900.

Would have been good for the drivers but maybe not so good for the airport staff!

[fishtank]

Royal Mail wanted to cancel all flights....

Says who?
That would have been a massive logistical operation that would need to be planned and costed by a professional team over a decent period of time. There would have been a huge amount of paperwork generated. Has anyone in the union seen any of these plans or did Moya just scribble "cancel flights" on the back of a napkin during lunch.

The kind of upheaval this would cause in RDCs, mailcentres right through the pipeline to delivery offices and would definitely have jeopardised the USO...for a measly £50 million which is around 0.6% of revenue?, and then suddenly they roll back on it???....it just don't ring true.

Does anyone at HQ ever consider that they're being played?
Or is it us who are being played?

[dvbuk55]

Does anyone at HQ ever consider that they're being played?
Or is it us who are being played?

Odd really how many times over the years have the members been told by the CWU what RM are planning and they managed to negotiate a good deal; a good deal that never seems to benefit the members. If that was a question my money is on the members being played.

[Danelectro]

The net result would have been that the work would need to be trunked by road around the UK and would have arrived much later and as Royal Mail have a legal contract to delivery the USO than start times would have been from 0800 or 0900.

And the net result of a delivery with a first letter of 12 noon in the offices I know would be a stack of no accessed mail along with a huge increase in cut offs due to service access slow downs and denials, currently this can cost up to 25 minutes in time wasted with a 9.40 first letter.