ballot vote %

tommyrep · Post by **tommyrep** » 15 Feb 2018, 21:15

Well said Navalron

Whysoslowyehcfc · Post by **Whysoslowyehcfc** » 17 Feb 2018, 07:42

Someone needs to ask Ward and Pullinger WHATS BEING DONE ABOUT B&H?
Nothing it seems..but as long as area reps keep these jobs they will make sure the deal goes through..
Ward and Pullinger seem to have disappeared up their own arseholes since the deal has come out

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 17 Feb 2018, 09:54

So you got a pay rise on the table worth 21.61 per week for a full time

A reduction in the working week and than 2% next April and a further hour off the working week.

Deal on pay at National Rate is £30.95 per week over 3 years.

For a part time on 25 hours due to the extra two pay rises due to the hourly rate going up they exit 3 years £30.95 per week better off.

Now before all you come and say it is not about pay , well pay is still a massive issue with the members , you might only take that view from your office , but I have held 15 meetings in the last 10 days with different offices and pay is still important and they recognise compared to other industries this is a good pay deal.

On the pipeline we have massively pushed back their proposals. Remember they were deadly serious about the 9-5 strategy , they wanted to cancel every flight which carried Mail which did not cross water ie Ireland , Chanel islands etc. This would have saved them over 50 million instead the vast majority of the flights remain and they now are investing to capture the new revenue of LATs.

We have a last letter time of 15:30. However on 31 Offices in the UK will move to that last letter and there is a review of them to see if this can be reduced by an earlier arrival into the Mail Centre or an earlier dispatch from Mail Centre.

Additionly the last letter of 15:30 remains for a minuimn of 3 years.

On Pensions , I get the fact get everyone wants certainity over whether the pension is going to be given the nod by the Goverment ?

However the fact remains the DB scheme closes on 31st March 2018. We either accept the pension solution which includes the potential Defined ambition scheme and until we get approval and the transitional arrangements will apply until than or for all those employed before 2008 we do not have pension solution agreed post March 31st.

Those who believe if we took strike action we would force Royal Mail to increase what they pay in pensions from 400 million to 1 billion are living in a dreamland.

I have no problems people wanting to vote no but do you really think that if we take strike action we are going to stop the following ?

Closure of the DB scheme ?

Royal Mail wanting to capture for growing market of next day / same day parcel traffic which will put pressure on start times ?

Increasing automation

Using modern technology to resource ie Automated Hours Data Capture and PDA actual and final mile Optimisation ?

The meetings I have held I have been quite honest with the members and said that this agreement has stopped a lot of the issues Royal Mail wanted , Parked some for further negoations and trials , technlogy and automation is changing the job , the fact that Royal Mail do not want the first wave to be sorted into a frame and they believe it will save them 25 minutes per day .

Hopefully there will be an positive update on Pensions and the progress soon.

But on finish times , pay and the SWW we have made real progress.

Plus we stopped monthly pay , removal of legacy , no sick pay for the first 3 days , walk ownership , team working , covering sick leave at no cost , 9-5 strategy and many more.

No other union including the RMT does this on a National Level

tommyrep · Post by **tommyrep** » 17 Feb 2018, 11:58

Is Dingo now in the employ of Moyà ? Now the Chief propaganda officer !
The pitfalls are obvious to anyone who can see through a deal riddled with NO guarantees, plenty ifs n buts, jam tomorrow.
Maybe Dingo does not experience the level of bullying in delivery as many do.
He stresses pay deal in %s, the true price to pay by members is in the detail, smaller/weaker units will be left to the wolves as is current. Managers will continue manipulating and bullying on delivery spans, OT payment etc, with no protection to members left high and dry by the CWU hierarchy . Large, well represented DOs may see the benefit, others certainly won't.
Why not a simple water tight deal applicable nationwide enforced on RM without twisted local agreement that only benefits RM? Dingo paints an impressive picture, if only it was watertight, fairly applied to ALL, if he thinks that is the true reality with RM at smaller units, he needs a reality check, and to realise monetary recompense is not always the best solution.
Wages were not the main reason for the 89% members vote - we are relatively well enough rewarded compared to many.
Dignity and self respect, being treated fairly at work have all got a value in day to day life within RM and retirement.
Big tough guys, larger units - including Dingo possibly ?- will always cope better than the many poorly advised/represented members left high and dry to fight a daily battle alone, which they always generally lose !
Alas, nothing mentioned in the current deal that will address these problems, or are they not as important as money. .?

Coinbags · Post by **Coinbags** » 17 Feb 2018, 14:02

tommyrep wrote: Wages were not the main reason for the 89% members vote - we are relatively well enough rewarded compared to many.
Dignity and self respect, being treated fairly at work have all got a value in day to day life within RM and retirement.

Spot on mate !

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 17 Feb 2018, 14:27

dingo wrote:
A reduction in the working week and than 2% next April and a further hour off the working week.

But no reduction in the workload, in fact, the same workload in fewer hours. That's what I am hearing from my unit. That's the biggest concern outside pensions.

P13 · Post by **P13** » 17 Feb 2018, 14:29

It would appear dingo is not aware of the "business as usual" mantra being spouted by local managers even before this new agreement has been implemented

Driver74 · Post by **Driver74** » 17 Feb 2018, 14:31

I think dingo has got it spot on compared to what Royal Mail wanted the cwu has got a lot more than I expected the wage is much better than most unskilled workers are ever going to get and what other alternative is there for a pension going forward we could strike from now till Christmas but the db scheme isn’t going to stay open pretty much everyone I’ve spoken to is reasonably happy contrary to what people are saying on here

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Feb 2018, 15:37

Driver74 wrote:I think dingo has got it spot on...and everyone I've spoken to is reasonably happy....

If you don't mind I'm going to ignore your opinion...same way as I did when you told us we were stupid for voting for strike action and we should have just rolled over and accepted what Royal Mail wanted because otherwise RM would just rip up our contracts. I think you also told us then that everyone you met agreed with you.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 17 Feb 2018, 16:32

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
dingo wrote:
A reduction in the working week and than 2% next April and a further hour off the working week.

But no reduction in the workload, in fact, the same workload in fewer hours. That's what I am hearing from my unit. That's the biggest concern outside pensions.

You will only do the same workload in 38 hours if the PDA actuals for your office state that there is scope to absorb that hour. If your office works to time than Royal Mail will invest as the PDA actuals will conform that you cannot absorb that hour.

However the reason why we need to look at the working
week is that automation and the fact that the amount on the first wave has increased in the vast majority of Delivery Offices from 60% to the mid 70s and therefore Royal Mail do not want the first wave sorted into a frame , instead there will be four options trialed which all are based on indoor merging of workload but with without the first wave being sorted. This is anticipated to save an amount of prep time on each walk. Royal Mail assumptions are as much as 25 mins per walk per day and if they are right and there not always wrong than that will mean that on 5 day week 2 hours and 5 mins will be lost each week and if there is not a shorter working week than your span will have to increase to compensate that loss.

So that is why we want a SWW. In terms of doing the same work in less hours this will only be the case if duties currently do not finish to time. No union can argue that we want a reduction in the working week to safeguard jobs in the future but by the way we don’t actually want to work the hour we are paid.

In the last 10 years we have seen sequencing , more flats Automated by buddying system , we now have parcel automation , we have d2d automation , we have PDA s which send a ping every 12 seconds showing the latitude and longitude of where it is on a walk , the route someone goes , where they stop and when they finish , we have Automated hours Data Capture which the union has limited in its use from clocking in and when you leave the floor and when you return from delivery and when you leave the building. Royal Mail wanted to put sensors on the IPS frames , the Prep frames and packet frames which would have allowed them to know how long each individual is on the IPS , Prep and Parcel frames , their aim was to have a compete Resourcing tool to link with the planned final mile Optimisation plan which feeds all the data in and the provide a different set of walks on a weekly basis for an office by all that data.

So this is why the union is looking for a reduction in the working week and it maybe the case on the first hour people will be doing the same work but the second hour will be based on a planned reduction in prep time.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Feb 2018, 16:47

You keep talking about PDA actuals dingo as if they were the holy grail. How are the PDA actuals relevant to an indoor workload reduction?

What's actually recorded by the actuals? First letter?...nope, last letter...nope, start times...nope, finish times...nope.

It can follow me around out on delivery all day but I don't think the technology is quite there yet to tell Royal Mail what I'm doing while it's in my bag/van. It certainly can't tell anyone whether I can absorb another hour's worth of work.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 17 Feb 2018, 16:52

And what about the people finishing 2 hours early?
Will the PDA actuals be used so they can absorb the extra work of several people or will the DOM continue to turn a blind eye as long as they keep signing for overtime?

Neverwasadoor · Post by **Neverwasadoor** » 17 Feb 2018, 17:05

I'm very dubious about this merging of indoor workload without using frame.
I get at least 7 - 10 missorts in my sequenced mail and a load not in order and before anyone says it my A+ is fine.
We don't get any sequenced flats. Are they supposed to be sorted and then placed in the sequenced mail, then tied up in bundles ???
I put all my small packets in frame what about those ?

tommyrep · Post by **tommyrep** » 17 Feb 2018, 17:14

Mmmm, Royal Mail assumptions ?
OFFICE pda times ? That do not observe actual start times ?
So ( all) duty times vary who picks up the slack to fulfil the paid hours.
It is a time bomb ready to go off. Lapsing bullying and intimidation of staff will go into orbit.
Spying on individual performance ? Will age, fitness using methods all be installed into RMs assumptions and included in the formula ? We all - ok maybe not all- have seen how successful the IWT worked along with resource meetings. Oh and don’t forget the addition work onto revision workloads, eg, delivery to neighbours, collections, RM assumptions of Mail drop conveniently never offset against packet increase - with added pressure of first time delivery.
What can RM assume in added services ? Mow the lawn, put out/bring* in bins ! because the magic pdas say so !
It’s a minefield designed for failure at best, in reality disaster for delivery staff.
Mech mail and bundled d2d, less mail even will reduce indoor work time, unfortunately the many PT staff will get hammered to do even more in xyz time. The job is well and truly f....d, and Dingos faith in the fair use of PDA actuals is far removed from reality, the distress in DOs is going to go orbital and any dressing up of the proposed use of pdas is just pie in the sky. In the hands of RM management ? You must be kidding, you are praising, buttering up even using petrol as a fire repellent. Let the real fun begin, cannot wait.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 17 Feb 2018, 17:17

P13 wrote:It would appear dingo is not aware of the "business as usual" mantra being spouted by local managers even before this new agreement has been implemented

The City seem to see it as business as usual also. RMG up from £4.69 pre agreemant announcement, to £5.50 today. Coincidence ?

The City is happy because either :-

a) RMG have compromised and achieved an equitable negotiated agreement that sets the standard for industrial relations in the UK
b) Moya Greene has just cracked nuclear fusion at home in her garage laboratory
or
c) RMG has just pulled off a coup of historic proportions by offloading its obligation to its workforce re. a decent pension in retirement - and appears to have done it without the slightest impact upon the all important shareholder dividends/profits that would have been impacted by industrial action.

Bravo RMG