Overtime clanger ?

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 16 Feb 2018, 19:13

The meta data produced by data capture is way beyond the capabilities of your average line manager. It's not going to be used by management to enforce meal relief and start times or even to curtail overtime. It will be used to remove hours from offices. If someone is starting early they're not going to swipe in until their start time anyway.

Post by **eastie** » 16 Feb 2018, 19:53

ArthurPewty wrote:At some point RM will bite the bullet and start enforcing the 'rules' using the PDA technology/clocking in & out - no ghosting, everyone works to time etc. There will be carnage for a few months undoubtedly. RM just have to have the balls to tough it out.

The maths (for example):
Currently you pay Fred 8 hours pay, he runs round, goes home after 6. You pay Bob 8 hours, he runs round and finishes after 6 too,you then pay him another 2 hours to do some ghost overtime that takes him an hour. So you're currently paying 20 hours for 13 hours work done.
With clocking out - Bob drags his feet and takes 7 hours, so does Fred. They get sent out again (or take half the extra work each in the first place) and clock off after 8 hours (both dragging the 30 mins extra work out for an hour). So you've now paid 16 hours for the same 13 hours work. You've just knocked 20% of the wages bill despite the 'go-slow' from Fred & Bob. I can't understand how a multi-million pound FTSE 100 company can't understand this. Or why so many postie's don't realise that everyone's life would be so much better if we worked like this. Even the runners ghosting would be less stressed not charging around cutting corners racing the clock all the time. Ghost overtime sounds great in theory, but the knock on effects f**k the job up for the entire workforce.

I think RM would be more worried about people not coming in an hour early unpaid , if people work to their time they wont come in early anymore. That would be the bigger loss .
Plus everyone would be out the door the same time and stop the runners leaving mail behind and people sneaking off the IPS and the runners may start having a meal relief

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 16 Feb 2018, 20:02

How many times have we heard about utilising all paid hours? How often is it enforced,rarely, the place would collapse without overtime,it runs on it,always has done. If you wait long enough on this job, everything comes back round eventually.
It's like all these initiatives,they last about a week,before they move onto some other boring topic. Next!

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 16 Feb 2018, 22:42

fishtank wrote:The meta data produced by data capture is way beyond the capabilities of your average line manager. It's not going to be used by management to enforce meal relief and start times or even to curtail overtime. It will be used to remove hours from offices. If someone is starting early they're not going to swipe in until their start time anyway.

When/if the AHDC technology comes in you won't be physically swiping in and out. We will have new identity cards with special chips and equipment at all entrances and exits. It will read you coming in and out. Similarly at the moment RM management or others put envelopes with microchips in them to check when or if postboxes are emptied. When the mail enters the MC the chip is read as it enters the building.

panch1989 · Post by **panch1989** » 16 Feb 2018, 22:59

What's everyone's issue with clocking in and out? I have no issues with it. Come in on time, do your job and go home when you complete your time or your round if you want the OT. sack off the stupid practice of writing down docket, it's 2018, Not 1978. Utilisation of technology shouldn't be feared.

mw7485 · Post by **mw7485** » 16 Feb 2018, 23:00

Celgar wrote:
fishtank wrote:The meta data produced by data capture is way beyond the capabilities of your average line manager. It's not going to be used by management to enforce meal relief and start times or even to curtail overtime. It will be used to remove hours from offices. If someone is starting early they're not going to swipe in until their start time anyway.
When/if the AHDC technology comes in you won't be physically swiping in and out. We will have new identity cards with special chips and equipment at all entrances and exits. It will read you coming in and out. Similarly at the moment RM management or others put envelopes with microchips in them to check when or if postboxes are emptied. When the mail enters the MC the chip is read as it enters the building.

I imagine it will go far beyond that. I would "expect" there to be RFID readers over/at every work point. Then, it will be known exactly who does what, where and for how long - and this, I think is what the union was concerned about. I wouldn't be concerned if we had a remotely human management, but we don't and so the data collected will be rife for abuse....

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Feb 2018, 04:39

It doesn't matter whether they insert a chip into the nearest available orifice, it's still only a record of when you enter the building, you will not be paid from when you enter the building. You will be paid from your start time so this won't in any way stop people starting early.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 17 Feb 2018, 04:55

Celgar wrote:
fishtank wrote:The meta data produced by data capture is way beyond the capabilities of your average line manager. It's not going to be used by management to enforce meal relief and start times or even to curtail overtime. It will be used to remove hours from offices. If someone is starting early they're not going to swipe in until their start time anyway.
When/if the AHDC technology comes in you won't be physically swiping in and out. We will have new identity cards with special chips and equipment at all entrances and exits. It will read you coming in and out. Similarly at the moment RM management or others put envelopes with microchips in them to check when or if postboxes are emptied. When the mail enters the MC the chip is read as it enters the building.

The current ID cards trigger the rfid readers, all RM would need to do would be install RFID readers above any door into a DO, MC or RDC

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 17 Feb 2018, 11:40

panch1989 wrote:What's everyone's issue with clocking in and out? I have no issues with it. Come in on time, do your job and go home when you complete your time or your round if you want the OT. sack off the stupid practice of writing down docket, it's 2018, Not 1978. Utilisation of technology shouldn't be feared.

Technology is not feared in Royal Mail far from it, its the competence level of those overwatching.

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 17 Feb 2018, 13:52

SpacePhoenix wrote:
Celgar wrote:
fishtank wrote:The meta data produced by data capture is way beyond the capabilities of your average line manager. It's not going to be used by management to enforce meal relief and start times or even to curtail overtime. It will be used to remove hours from offices. If someone is starting early they're not going to swipe in until their start time anyway.
When/if the AHDC technology comes in you won't be physically swiping in and out. We will have new identity cards with special chips and equipment at all entrances and exits. It will read you coming in and out. Similarly at the moment RM management or others put envelopes with microchips in them to check when or if postboxes are emptied. When the mail enters the MC the chip is read as it enters the building.
The current ID cards trigger the rfid readers, all RM would need to do would be install RFID readers above any door into a DO, MC or RDC

And how many people carry their I.d. Cards around with them?

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Feb 2018, 15:26

RFID is useless for monitoring hours worked, it's only an indication of location. You will still need physical registration of duty start , change of role/task and duty finish.

That's where the utopian dream of no early starts and full canteens at break time falls on its arse.

How the data will be used is like this...

Operations manager to Dom: You've paid out 1000 hours this month and according to our data your boys have only worked 800 of those hours so I want you to cut 200 hrs a month.

Dom to OM: Ok Boss.

Dom to Lino: Lapse 4 more duties and bully anyone who won't complete or goes near the overtime sheet.

Lino to Dom: Ok Boss.

Rep: Yeah but...but.let me see the data...all 354 pages of it, will get back to you, where's my coffee?