General Secretary Dave Ward and DGSP Terry Pullinger sharing their thoughts on our Four Pillars agreement

stevenshm · Post by **stevenshm** » 08 Feb 2018, 19:28

fishtank wrote:The part of MTSF affected by the proposed changes are Early Voluntary Retirement with enhanced pension and IHR with pension. These are obviously pension benefits so no pension: no benefit.

It's what's known in negotiation circles as "collateral damage".

Let's not talk about it...shhhh.

Will it effect ill health retirement with lump sum and pilion payment?

mw7485 · Post by **mw7485** » 08 Feb 2018, 19:33

Its a no from me. Whilst I accept RM have moved - a lot - they've protected themselves with fluffy wording that can be interpreted in any way they choose and given their history, I very much doubt it would be in favour of the workforce or in a neutral way. Can the union not see this? There are many places were clear, concise unambiguous wording could have been used, but wasn't. Instead, we have fluff, fog and consultant speak. The review of part-timers hours is a classic example. This agreement is not worth the paper its printed on IMVHO.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 08 Feb 2018, 19:37

mw7485 wrote:Its a no from me. Whilst I accept RM have moved - a lot - they've protected themselves with fluffy wording that can be interpreted in any way they choose and given their history, I very much doubt it would be in favour of the workforce or in a neutral way. Can the union not see this? There are many places were clear, concise unambiguous wording could have been used, but wasn't. Instead, we have fluff, fog and consultant speak. The review of part-timers hours is a classic example. This agreement is not worth the paper its printed on IMVHO.

Yes I agree we need a better agreement than this for this to be a deal to put forward never mind 50% of the 50%!

worktotime · Post by **worktotime** » 08 Feb 2018, 19:42

this is a part of the briefing on weds to area reps , BULLYING MUST STOP AND EVERY REP MUST PULL OUT ALL THE STOPS TO ENSURE IT STOPS , how pray tell us ? as there is nothing in the agreement to say how , and haven't they just brought in a new b&h and grievance procedure that's about as much use as a chocolate fire guard . unbelievable .

westham000 · Post by **westham000** » 08 Feb 2018, 19:52

I will be voting YES. Been in the job over 25 years, been out on every strike, official, and unofficial ( wildcat). When I first started our wages were about 6 thousand pounds below average earnings. With this new deal we will be less then a thousand behind. Thanks to our union.

Every other public company that has been privatised has had their terms and conditions atacked. Our T &C have been protected, and continues to be protected, thanks to our union.

I was very upset when they gave notice to close our D B pension. D B schemes are costing millions to run, and companies are closing them down every year. I’m a realist, and would sooner have a good, well paid job with earnings opportunities, and good T&C, then take a risk, by keeping our DB scheme open , and risk the business becoming insolvent and losing everything. The replacement scheme is a wage in retirement. Hopefully it will be implemented within 18 months. I believe we pay 6%, and the business pays 13.6%. I’ve got a rough idea what that equates too. Can somebody on here maybe Robert T, actually confirm in pounds the total amount per week that would be going into this new scheme.

If Royal Mail was bought out, do you honestly think we will keep what we have now. We would be asked to reapply for our jobs for a lot less money and inferior T&T. ( A fact)

And Dave Ward was an ordinary postman from south London, who worked his way up to the position he now holds. And good luck to him. So he knows what it’s like to do a delivery.

It’s a big YES from me.

BoltonPostie · Post by **BoltonPostie** » 08 Feb 2018, 19:58

worktotime wrote:this is a part of the briefing on weds to area reps , BULLYING MUST STOP AND EVERY REP MUST PULL OUT ALL THE STOPS TO ENSURE IT STOPS , how pray tell us ? as there is nothing in the agreement to say how , and haven't they just brought in a new b&h and grievance procedure that's about as much use as a chocolate fire guard . unbelievable .

Does that mean we all get to sit in the canteen and listen to the rep and the DOM read off a sheet like last time with the dignity and respect bollocks , because that was a roaring success.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 08 Feb 2018, 20:03

BULLYING MUST STOP AND EVERY REP MUST PULL OUT ALL THE STOPS TO ENSURE IT STOPS

And if they don't then what?
I'll tell you what....nothing.

To be honest if reps haven't been pulling out all the stops to stop something as basic as bullying from the day they became reps it's beyond optimistic to believe a few words at a briefing will make the slightest difference. At the end of the day though how can you make them? Every layer of the union is unaccountable to the other layers, there is an unwritten rule that you don't stick your nose in anybody's business and they won't stick their nose in yours.

There are offices who have had the same rep for 20 years and three quarters of the office don't know who he is. Stop bullying..seriously? Unless the bullying happens next to the coffee machine some of these "lifetime" reps are unlikely to notice.

borgpicard · Post by **borgpicard** » 08 Feb 2018, 20:10

Just for the fact of the hour off the working week, is taken 12 minute later starting time, totally pointless, no shorter then. I'm voting NO.

Yamr1 · Post by **Yamr1** » 08 Feb 2018, 20:10

A lot of the reps know about bullying
But suck up to the gaffers for a better duty and no lapsing...
Gaffer keeps him sweet
Sad but true ..
So he can lapse more etc

Stunners · Post by **Stunners** » 08 Feb 2018, 20:11

I am a little cautious , there are certain words in this agreement that I find very worrying most notably that after the first reduction in the shorter working week the next set of hours to reduce it down to 35 hours are linked strings and trials and results and all sorts so there is no guarantee in 2022 we will be on 35 hours at all.

I think overall this is a pretty decent agreement but I am very worried about a few sections of it that Royal mail will exploit

Yamr1 · Post by **Yamr1** » 08 Feb 2018, 20:15

westham000 wrote:I will be voting YES. Been in the job over 25 years, been out on every strike, official, and unofficial ( wildcat). When I first started our wages were about 6 thousand pounds below average earnings. With this new deal we will be less then a thousand behind. Thanks to our union.

Every other public company that has been privatised has had their terms and conditions atacked. Our T &C have been protected, and continues to be protected, thanks to our union.

I was very upset when they gave notice to close our D B pension. D B schemes are costing millions to run, and companies are closing them down every year. I’m a realist, and would sooner have a good, well paid job with earnings opportunities, and good T&C, then take a risk, by keeping our DB scheme open , and risk the business becoming insolvent and losing everything. The replacement scheme is a wage in retirement. Hopefully it will be implemented within 18 months. I believe we pay 6%, and the business pays 13.6%. I’ve got a rough idea what that equates too. Can somebody on here maybe Robert T, actually confirm in pounds the total amount per week that would be going into this new scheme.

If Royal Mail was bought out, do you honestly think we will keep what we have now. We would be asked to reapply for our jobs for a lot less money and inferior T&T. ( A fact)

And Dave Ward was an ordinary postman from south London, who worked his way up to the position he now holds. And good luck to him. So he knows what it’s like to do a delivery.

It’s a big YES from me.

D B schemes are costing millions to run
Were making hundreds of millions a year and paying out massive dividends..
If we were not making making a profit I could see the point

westham000 · Post by **westham000** » 08 Feb 2018, 20:29

I would like someone on this site who is more knowledgable then me to
A) post Royal Mails yearly profits.
B) post the total amount paid out to share holders via the dividend.
And C) the cost per year of running our current soon to close DB pension scheme.

Thank you.

worktotime · Post by **worktotime** » 08 Feb 2018, 21:00

fishtank wrote:
BULLYING MUST STOP AND EVERY REP MUST PULL OUT ALL THE STOPS TO ENSURE IT STOPS
And if they don't then what?
I'll tell you what....nothing.

To be honest if reps haven't been pulling out all the stops to stop something as basic as bullying from the day they became reps it's beyond optimistic to believe a few words at a briefing will make the slightest difference. At the end of the day though how can you make them? Every layer of the union is unaccountable to the other layers, there is an unwritten rule that you don't stick your nose in anybody's business and they won't stick their nose in yours.

There are offices who have had the same rep for 20 years and three quarters of the office don't know who he is. Stop bullying..seriously? Unless the bullying happens next to the coffee machine some of these "lifetime" reps are unlikely to notice.

to right , but they haven't put anything in place to stop all this s**t once and for all . its very disappointing as this is probably one of the bigger issues that staff have before MONEY ,

TheTrolleyMan · Post by **TheTrolleyMan** » 08 Feb 2018, 21:22

Too many issues are not being addressed , bullshite Mail figures , copy & paste work plans , bullying & HARRASSMENT , job being run on overtime etc , don't be fooled by a few hundred quid in back pay , we need to protect our futures now ! Big NO vote from me

worktotime · Post by **worktotime** » 08 Feb 2018, 21:56

TheTrolleyMan wrote:Too many issues are not being addressed , bullshite Mail figures , copy & paste work plans , bullying & HARRASSMENT , job being run on overtime etc , don't be fooled by a few hundred quid in back pay , we need to protect our futures now ! Big NO vote from me

I don't think you will be the only one voting NO , especially in delivery .